Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate" - Page 4 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree30Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 07-25-2014
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,924
Thanks: 67
Thanked 67 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
So I guess next we will stop recording the youngest to climb Everest, the youngest to drive in Nascar, the youngest to go into space, the youngest to ride the Tour de France, the youngest to enluist and go to Afghanistan ( one year older than this 17 year old). Life is risks and danger. Not putting the youngest in the record books wont stop people from doing it...thats absurd.

Stop being abunch of nannys and passing judgement on others who have the right to make their own decisons and then making judgements about them. As long as it doesnt endanger you....whats you beef
While it is very sad when one of these young people dies, it is also encouraging that there are still a few who pursue things other than the newest mind-sapping electronic gadget and who aspire to do something not confined to a cubicle. Young people are much more capable than most folks imagine. The "record setting" element, I would guess, is not at all the reason for them getting involved in flying, sailing, rock climbing, skiing, etc.
tomandchris likes this.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #32  
Old 07-25-2014
Coquina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 448
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Coquina is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

I would actually enjoy a round-the-world trip with my son, but I don't want to sell my boat to pay the gas bill and if I take the boat work will quit paying me after a month or two, so I am kind of hosed
__________________
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #33  
Old 07-25-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
stinson6 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Just read thru this post and it's obvious there are some pilots with experience on this board. I too am a pilot with commercial/instrument privileges and have quite a bit of time in the A36 Bonanza. For the flights they were taking I'm sure they had "ferry" fuel tanks that add alot of extra fuel and weight to the aircraft for them to cover the long distances that are required between land in the Pacific. Not to get too much into it but the A36 has some interesting Center of Gravity issues that have to be dealt with as the fuel is burned; not dangerous but you need to be mindful of it. The aircraft went down shortly after takeoff. With the extra weight the aircraft had I'm sure the climb was anemic and they weren't much more than several thousand feet above the water. If they experienced a vacuum failure and didn't recognize it almost immediately then they were doomed. The Bonanza is "a slippery" airframe and can gain a great deal of speed with nose pointed down. At a few thousand feet they could have impacted the water in a matter of seconds. Vacuum failures at night low to the ground is very very serious business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #34  
Old 07-25-2014
Brewgyver's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 378
Thanks: 6
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brewgyver is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquina View Post
My best evil trick was running the trim full up or down while doing the unusual attitudes
Trim runaway is a real thing too and can be quite serious. For one example, most large jets have a lot more trim range than elevator range, i.e you cannot overcome bad trim with brute force.
I seem to remember an airliner crash some years ago (think it was an Airbus?) that was (eventually) directly attributed to a trim control failure.
__________________
s/v My Sweet Girl!
Catalina 30 (Mark I)
Atomic 4
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #35  
Old 07-28-2014
emcentar's Avatar
Advanced beginner
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 264
Thanks: 17
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 6
emcentar is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
The organization that keeps track of sailing records eliminated the 'youngest' category a few years ago so if people are doing it there is no formal recognition. Having said that, we crossed paths with Laura Dekker in the South Pacific and she was a very competent, responsible sailor.
Very cool! I loved the movie about her circumnavigation, "Maidentrip".
__________________
1987 Pearson 28-2, Deale MD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #36  
Old 07-28-2014
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 3,030
Thanks: 11
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

As some of you experienced pilots have mentioned, the crash was probably fuel weight related. Note the flight was going from American Samoa to Hawaii (over 2,200 miles) and this was so far the longest leg of the trip. The plane would have been loaded with fuel probably higher than ever before- and they had just taken off then crashed.

Here is Matt's web site:
About | Limitless Horizons

And itnerary:
Itinerary | Limitless Horizons

Ok I am mistaken, Matt did finish the flight:
Matt Guthmiller, 19, Is Youngest Person to Fly Solo Around World

Looks to have had the same plane model and route as the crashed plane flown by Haris Suleman.
RIP Haris

From:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1121709

Haris Suleman’s plane didn’t show distress: witness
By AP
Published 3 days ago‹ ›

File Photo AP
PAGO PAGO (United States): A man who saw the plane flown by Haris Suleman seconds before it crashed and killed the boy and his father during an around-the-world flight attempt said the aircraft was flying low but didn’t show any obvious signs of distress before diving into the ocean off American Samoa.

Bert Thompson of Matuu, American Samoa, said on Thursday he saw no fire, explosions or emergency lighting on the plane carrying 17-year-old Haris Suleman and his father, 58-year-old Pakistani-born Babar Suleman.

“It just went down, dived into the ocean,” said Mr Thompson, who saw the plane while sitting at a bus stop in his shoreline village. Haris Suleman’s body was recovered shortly after Tuesday’s crash. Crews were still searching for his father.

Mr Thompson said he didn’t see the plane hit the water because it was too far offshore and too dark, with no moon in the sky. Anguished family members and friends pleaded for more resources on Thursday in hopes of finding Babar Suleman. “Time is of the essence,” family friend Azher Khan said at a news conference outside the family’s home. “Babar is a fighter, and I know that he’s over there clinging to hope, hoping that someone will come for rescue.”


Haris Suleman knew risks of around-the-world journey: family


The US Coast Guard said on Thursday it had found wreckage from the plane, which crashed shortly after taking off from Pago Pago, American Samoa.

A pilot spotted sections of the plane’s fuselage and other aircraft components on Wednesday night, spokesman Gene Maestas said, and ships later recovered some of that debris.

Divers searching for Babar Suleman went to the last known location of the plane’s distress signal but found the 100-metre water too deep, said American Samoa Homeland Security Department Director Iuniasolua Savusa.

“It’s beyond their capabilities at this point,” the director said. “So right now, we are doing all we can to deploy methods we have on island.”

That includes casting a net to the bottom of the ocean and dragging it to see if it captures any wreckage.

Haris Suleman had hoped to set the record for the fastest circumnavigation around the world in a single-engine airplane with the youngest pilot in command. His journey was also a fund-raiser to help build schools in Pakistan. Babar Suleman had long dreamed of flying around the world. The Sulemans left the United States on June 19 and had been expected to arrive back on Saturday.

Family and friends defended the father-son team and their mission, saying they had known the dangers when they set out and had trained for them.

Published in Dawn, July 26th, 2014
__________________
In the beginning, there was only water...

Last edited by casey1999; 07-28-2014 at 07:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #37  
Old 07-28-2014
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 3,030
Thanks: 11
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinson6 View Post
Vacuum failures at night low to the ground is very very serious business.

What is vacuum failure?
__________________
In the beginning, there was only water...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #38  
Old 07-28-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 267
Thanks: 54
Thanked 33 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 3
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
What is vacuum failure?
I don't know, but it sucks... (rim shot)...

Sorry, bad joke. Most smallish planes, including my Cherokee, have a suction pump that creates a vacuum in a couple lines that feed the HI (Heading Indicator) and AI (Attitude Indicator). That vacuum enables these gauges to operate. If the vacuum system fails, you can still fly the airplane, but you are reduced to "partial panel," meaning you are left with the remaining operable gauges, which include the altimeter (how high you are), airspeed indicator (how fast you are going relative to the windspeed.. the aviation allegory to apparent wind in sailing), and VSI (Vertical Speed Indicator, which tells you your rate of ascent or descent, with a considerable bit of lag) which are all ram and/or static air pressure-driven instruments, your TC (Turn Coordinator) which tells you, overly-simplified, your rate of turn, i.e., how many degrees of turn you'll complete in a given amount of time, which is typically an electric instrument, and your compass. As you know from sailing, there are compass errors you need to account for. The compass errors in aircraft are much more pronounced.

A vacuum failure makes you rely on instruments with more lag than others, and whose reading require more interpretation to determine the "attitude" (orientation) of the aircraft than the two main vacuum-driven instruments (Attitude Indicator and Heading Indicator). The aircraft is still eminently flyable, but requires a great deal more concentration and a calm mind. Being able to so do, in my opinion, is one of the fundamental goals of IFR instruction.

This is an over-simplified, not entirely accurate layman's description of the systems involved.. I hope it helps.

Best to all,

Barry
MedSailor and casey1999 like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry

Last edited by bblument; 07-28-2014 at 08:35 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #39  
Old 07-29-2014
Coquina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 448
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Coquina is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

To add to this: All IFR airplanes have redundant instruments run from seperate power sources. In a typical light airplane those sources are the vacuum pump and electrical system. If the vacuum pump fails flying gets much harder because the 'best" instruments are the vacuum ones and you have to know they failed. Bigger dollar and newer airplanes frequently use all electrical instruments with seperate emergency batteries. I used to fly an airpane with two engines and two alternators that split everything between left and right busses with a bus tie breaker I could open so that half my equipment would keep going unless I had a double electrical failure.
__________________
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Coquina; 07-29-2014 at 04:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #40  
Old 07-29-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 303
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Shinook is on a distinguished road
Re: Another fatal attempt at "Youngest to circumnavigate"

The loss of suction would also cause the autopilot to fail, if they have the KFC-200 that is normal in that era A36, which takes input from the AI.

That said, I'd be surprised if they took that trip without a standby vac. That's pretty essential IFR safety equipment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 06:31 PM
VIDEO: Coast Guard Academy Welcomes "Blue Goose" and "Stormy Petrel" - Patch.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-28-2012 08:50 AM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 12:53 PM
Quintess Yacht Tragedy - "The Essence" Sinks In Fatal Collision - Helium Report NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-26-2006 02:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.