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The trend in new cruising boats....

9K views 66 replies 29 participants last post by  christian.hess 
#1 ·
I've been noticing that many of the newer cruising boats to hit the market, especially the new Beneteaus and Jeanneaus seem to be really trying to simplify sail control. For a while, now the trend seemed to be in-mast furling. Now, it seems they've even decided to deep-six the traveler completely. Jeanneau's new 349 does not even use jib cars. You need to upgrade to a performance edition to get a low friction ring system to control the sheeting angle in lieu of jib cars and tracks.

It is odd that these new boats also have wide, flat beams, dual rudders and dual helms with carbon fiber wheels as an option. But then again, they also have throw pillows on the cockpit benches in the advertising photos!
 
#40 ·
People that populate forums tend to be gear nuts, whether it be sailing, skiing, kite boarding etc. I know it is hard to accept but WE (internet sailing site fans) don't align with the majority of people in any sport.

I have recently became a reader of a NON internet forum based sailing rag and it is amazing how polar opposite many of the opinions are vs those on SN and other forums. Let's face it, forum folks want things to be "difficult". Whether you are the no frills old boat type or a modern racer, we have that in common as forum denizens. We want stuff to adjust, talk about and fix. When we don't have anything else to do we come on here and talk about fixing stuff.

Many actual cruisers don't always align it seems with the everything you see on here. I guess what I am saying is that those are actually buying new boats want simple and easy. And many of these boats seem to be cruised all around the world.

I think the production builders build what the majority want. Hence, production scale takes affect. You want something that the 80% don't want, add it or have it customized, or do it yourself. Just don't be indignant that everyone else doesn't want it.

I like complex. Gives my brain and body something to chew on. Many people want to give their brains a break when the weekend comes and it has taken me a lifetime to not begrudge them for it.
 
#42 ·
People that populate forums tend to be gear nuts, whether it be sailing, skiing, kite boarding etc. I know it is hard to accept but WE (internet sailing site fans) don't align with the majority of people in any sport.

I have recently became a reader of a NON internet forum based sailing rag and it is amazing how polar opposite many of the opinions are vs those on SN and other forums. Let's face it, forum folks want things to be "difficult". Whether you are the no frills old boat type or a modern racer, we have that in common as forum denizens. We want stuff to adjust, talk about and fix. When we don't have anything else to do we come on here and talk about fixing stuff.

Many actual cruisers don't always align it seems with the everything you see on here. I guess what I am saying is that those are actually buying new boats want simple and easy. And many of these boats seem to be cruised all around the world.

I think the production builders build what the majority want. Hence, production scale takes affect. You want something that the 80% don't want, add it or have it customized, or do it yourself. Just don't be indignant that everyone else doesn't want it.

I like complex. Gives my brain and body something to chew on. Many people want to give their brains a break when the weekend comes and it has taken me a lifetime to not begrudge them for it.
Well said. Different strokes for different folks. Or maybe, because some are so adamant about what is the "right" way to rig a boat, the builders should build what a small part of the market wants rather than actually make money satisfying the majority.

I like a traveler. Catalina must like travelers because all of their boats have travelers. Oh wait! Those travelers are on the coach roof, so they are not "REAL" travelers! However, the reason that the travelers are on the coach roof, or not on the boats at all, is because the customer does not want it in their way.

Probably 90% of those here will never buy a new boat, and less than that will be buying boats in the 45' range. Honestly, who cares what that 90% care until they are writing checks for these boats. When you write that check you can probably get added features that you want with little problem. That might be a traveler or that may be a cup holder...your money, your call.

Look at the arch on the boat that started this post. If it can handle that mainsheet it can certainly be easily fitted with a nice Garhauer travelor. Ask and you will most likely get to pay for it.
 
#43 · (Edited)
One of the things I've been wondering about with the double rudder boats is how poorly they must handle under power. With no prop wash over the rudder (like the old twin screw, single rudder motorsailors), I can't see them as at all responsive to the normal way of operating a sailboat; perhaps they absolutely require a bow thruster.
Has anyone tried docking one of these boats in less than ideal conditions?
Another thing I am noticing about the new, straight stem vessels is how terrible they are to anchor. Several models of straight stemmed bareboats have diaper like pads to protect the bow from the chain and snub line, even with an extended anchor roller out the bow. Every single one of the straight stemmed boats I've seen down here has numerous chunks of gelcoat out of the bow, apparently from the anchor hitting the hull while setting or retrieving the anchor.
Just another thing to consider before buying one of these boats for cruising, perhaps.
 
#45 ·
Another thing I am noticing about the new, straight stem vessels is how terrible they are to anchor. Several models of straight stemmed bareboats have diaper like pads to protect the bow from the chain and snub line, even with an extended anchor roller out the bow. Every single one of the straight stemmed boats I've seen down here has numerous chunks of gelcoat out of the bow, apparently from the anchor hitting the hull while setting or retrieving the anchor.
Just another thing to consider before buying one of these boats for cruising, perhaps.
A friend has a 2 year old Bene 40. The plumb bow really is a problem to the extent that the friend had the rollers extended to no avail and then had the bow skinned in stainless plate to stop the anchor and chain destroying the boat.
 
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#52 ·
Here is the system on our new boat the Boreal 44. No traveler but a system of pulley's with sheet going to winches on both side of cockpit. You can use both winches to haul in boom. Can't get it strait over the center when sheeted in but within a foot. We have a vang.

Not crazy about the system I think Boreal could have done better with it. Maybe a small 2.5 foot traveler on the top of doghouse would have been fine for a cruising/expedition boat.
 

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#53 ·
interesting

the big plus about the system above is there is no single point stress or weakening in case of an emergency jibe or wild knockdown etc

by having 2,3,4 etc blocks on each side with a very long sheet you effectively spread the load over a very wide area...meaning you will most likely never experience a blown block on a traveller or bent traveller or any if the other common breaking scenarios that do indeed happen on said systems...

I get that its not ideal, but it also isnt dumb or overly simplistic etc...I do find it interesting why you can only get within a foot of centerline

by maybe using single systems attaching at different points you could obtain centerline?
 
#54 ·
It's a system that works for the type of sailing we do. Yes I could attach a sheet to the boom go out to a snatch block on one of the cleats and then back to a winch and obtain center. But going to weather in rough seas we can only get about 57 degrees apparent and keep up our speed. In calm sea sailing with good winds we get up to about 27 degrees off the wind even with the boom about one foot from center. We have great sails so we have little flutter when sheeted in.

We can't get within a foot of center because the angle of the sheet just won't pull to center anymore, we get to a certain point and the boom will just tighten more towards the doghouse roof and more than needed for god sail trim.

Our biggest problem is wear on the sheets but I think it is more to the poor quality of blocs Boreal uses,(Lewmar) than the design. We are awaiting Boreal to come up with a better block for our boat.
 
#58 ·
My parent had a Grampian 23 when I was younger.. it did not have a traveler.

Travelers go back further than you might realize too. In Herreshoff's day though, they were bronze rod with a ring that ran abaft the cockpit
 
#60 ·
Hannah2 has a boat that can be sailed by 2 anywhere at anytime.he's proved it. I have a boat that can too with exception of high latitudes. I think both of us could not find anything from the large production builders that could.
I'm not a racer but a cruiser. I hate engine noise,doing oil/ transmission service and blowing $4+ on diesel. Sailing my boat efficiently means less engine hours, better vmg/ days work and less strain/wear on sails and gear. I don't see how this is possible without appropriate sail controls.
Lastly I would get bored. Losing the traveller means one less thing to tweak and get wrong.
 
#63 ·
In my opinion, you seem to come closest to the 'Target Demographic' for these sorts of boats
The Target demographic is keenly researched by production builders, What they do is to appeal to both men and women.

* Easy sail handling
* Clean Euro interiors,( laminates, pastels, vinyls etc, air and light) that match the design aesthetic of the day and their homes
* modern conveniences, its not camping
* Modern high performance underwater appendages and shape, fin keel, spade rudder, etc, nobody wants to go sloooow!.
* reliable well powered diesels.
* High performance sails, and other exotic deck kit are typically offered as a "performance pack", many of these are purchased
* Low maintenance.

The days when you average "hottie" slugged in around in a wet, cramped, awkward boat are gone, along with the Gin, affected accent and blue blazer.

Get used to it, whether you are Halberg Rassy, Oyster, or Beneteau, the trends are the same, Been in an Oyster recently, its all glitz and glass and ease of use.
 
#66 ·
Capta, it's an old boat. We don't generally sail from the aft cockpit, especially if it's just the two of us at night. This picture is after I brought her coffee, it was a pleasant morning, she wanted to drive for a bit and turned off the ap. We will be adding rails from the center to the aft cockpit, similar to those used on the Swans.
 
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