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docking with no motor and 20 knots

5K views 51 replies 26 participants last post by  Capt Len 
#1 ·
Borrowed Chrysler 22' swing keel. Ignition key broke off, didn't think id have a motor. Wind was 20 knots from the north, dock was to our south. The slip faces east/west, other boats all around and their sterns extending past the docks. Ended up getting motor on , but how would I have docked otherwise?
 
#2 ·
Anchor and call for a tow, or...

Sail gently into fuel dock or T-end and wait for conditions to calm while plotting next steps, or...

Learn how to hot-wire your motor. It may come in handy.
 
#4 ·
When I turn west towards the slip I'd have to be right on, no mistakes. Also can't control speed of entry ( I subscribe to - one should only enter at the speed they're willing to hit the dock at). No reverse gear. Can't enter on a beam reach reefed. Too tight, no room for the boom to swing, would have to ease it way out to slow the boat on a reach.
 
#20 ·
Sure you can control your speed by rapidly swinging the rudder back and forth, using the momentary almost instantaneous and very RAPID full swing of the rudder as a ' drag brake' to bleed off speed. Takes some practice as the boat must not be allowed to swing during the "violent' almost full swing of the rudder - you 'snap' it into a full turn yet the boat shouldnt 'yaw'. Best done with a tiller, not a steering wheel and with the sails dropped. On most smaller boats you can gain forward motion by rapidly 'sculling' the tiller.
 
#5 · (Edited)
if you think you're going too fast, even with the sails down, you can drop a bucket off the stern. I keep one onboard with a strong handle and a rope for rinsing the deck etc.

to slow down..you could also make a series of short sharp turns port and starboard..using the rudder to help brake you...

assuming you have your fenders out and docklines and a spring line ready..you shouldn't have that much way on that you can't stop a 22 ft boat with a cleat and a spring line without doing damage.

Next time you dock with your engine working with wind astern..put it in neutral/idle early and see what happens.
 
#8 ·
There is absolutely no reason to consider this question. Anchor or heave to outside the marina and call for a commercial tow.
Should anything go wrong in your attempt to sail into your marina in 20k of wind, I'd bet it would cost you much, much more than the tow would. Attempting to sail into anyplace that you do not need to, in adverse conditions is foolhardy, dangerous and poor seamanship. Display your common sense and seamanship by not risking your boat and those of others, wrecklessly.
 
#11 ·
There is absolutely no reason to consider this question. Anchor or heave to outside the marina and call for a commercial tow.
Seriously?

People actually do sail without motors.

I worked for 7 years at a 100+ slip municipal marina in a busy harbor and we rented on an hourly basis 3 Rhodes 19s with fixed keels. No motors. The only way in and out of the slips was under sail. The idea of dropping anchor outside the harbor and calling for a tow because you don't have engine power is laughable. We never had an engine to begin with.
 
#10 ·
You can do a lot with a couple of anchors, "walking" your way from one to the other. Also, with a 22' boat, those ancient devices called oars can be utilized:) I have seen good sailors get large sailboats, under sail, into incredibly difficult spots with adverse wind and currents. No way I am good enough to dare to attempt such maneuvers but it is possible. It is awesome to watch what can be done under sail when a master sailor is at the helm.
 
#12 ·
This is ridiculous... apparently it's been a while since many of you have sailed small boats.

Its a 22! You could stop it by hand!

I'd say if you don't know how to use a spring line you have likely missed how to properly tie your boat up...

You sail up to the point where you are within say 100 feet... drop all and or release all, make sure you are doing about 2 knots at 100 feet away. Make your turn, and even if you are coming in HOT.. you scramble off and throw the spring line on FIRST... if your spring line is set correctly it should stop the boat before it hits the dock, and it should swing away enough to throw your 2nd spring line on. Done.

I dock all the time solo in my 25, including several dockings solo in up to 20, in squirrly winds where our marina is (usually oscillating through our docks).

This all based on skill level and should be practiced in lighter air first. But one should know how to do this stuff for when the sh$t eventually hits the fan.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for all the replies. I'm pretty confident I could do it in a dinghy sailor, they're much more maneuverable. I think the anchor and call for tow is the correct answer in this case.

Why an electric ignition ? Why not? All outboard controls are inside the cockpit, which is nice.

Don't know about using oars, the boat sits pretty high in the water, and the 20 knots we'd be competing with. A 22' keelboat is not THAT light, folks.

What I did not mention originally is that downwind of the dock it's really tight (no room to maneuver) and shallow. The lake is filled with pontoon boaters with no knowledge, or concern, for other boaters, let alone sailboats. One pontoon was stationed (anchored) downwind of where I would have liked to have gone downwind of the dock to make a beat approach.

Swallow pride, call for tow.
 
#15 ·
For serious though...

20 knots with the wind on your back are not conditions to start learning to dock without a motor with other boats are around. Call a tow would be the wise choice. Though it may hurt your pride, it won't hurt your reputation like hitting other boats would.
Seeing another boat under tow only makes me think, "Aw, sucks for that guy." Seeing a guy hit another boat pisses me off and makes me call him names under my breath.

Set out some jugs or floaties outside of the marina and practice docking between them. It doesn't hurt to learn how to dock under sail.
 
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#16 ·
It really depends on your sailing environment. Do you have good clear wind all the way to the slip? Then sailing to the dock should be doable. However, best not to take chances of causing thousands of dollars of damage to your boat and others if you screw up.

Perhaps try practicing with your engine in neutral. That way, you can recover from your errors.

I went sailing with Dennis Conner once in some charity thing. He insisted on sailing back to the dock, and we did just that. And he wouldn't let his crew start the engine.
 
#17 ·
Not sure how a power boat towing a sailboat is going to have any easier of a time getting the boat into its slip in the conditions/circumstance as described. Sounds like there was no room for a hip tow into the slip.

If the OP can't sail the boat into the slip, then the answer is to have someone transferred to the boat who can. I'd much rather sail a 22' boat into a slip, than try to tow it or be towed in 20 knots of wind.

Also, he wasn't DDW into the slip. He was DDW to the dock, then west into the slip so the wind would be on the beam. Even better. Personally, I'd probably drop the main, sail downwind on just the jib, let the jib sheet go, hard right into the slip and get a line onto a cleat. If someone is there helping on the dock, it's really not that hard of an endeavor.
 
#21 · (Edited)
stalling the rudder to slow down...tiller only only on some boats, only on those with mostly spade rudders...

seen it happen where it goes wrong and oh ****! jajaja

you know a diagram of your dock and fairway and wind direction and speed like someone posted a while back on a new to him dock would be a great way to help a bit more

my advice would be to get one of the other sailors on your dock to help you out coming in once or twice while you help with the lines and or jumping off and tying off the spring line or simply pushing against the bow once in etc...

sculling can be done on big boats too btw

you rock the boat with each turn of the rudder you can get up to 2-3 knots using this methods depending on boat


we did it all the time on j24s....all dinghies etc...
 
#22 ·
Hmmmmmm... How well do you know and get along with the boatowner immediately upwind from your slip, whose stern is sticking out as they all do? And how many in your crew? Any "deck apes"?

Your boat weighs 3000 pounds, plus crew weight. come down the "street" under bare poles, or at most under jib alone which you drop early depending on your speed. Do NOT have your main up, you want your boom quiet and midships, you have other stuff to worry about.

Slow down by waggling tiller from hard over to hard over. bucket idea is good if the handle is strong.

As you get to the slip, quickly toss a line onto the leeward stern cleat of neighbor's boat. Have your deck apes try to hold it, just aft of your windward half-length. Or a half turn around a cleat, you want it to both pivot and brake you but still be able to ease it. This should help turn you and keep your sliding leeway from causing your stern to swing too far out "past" the slip opening.

Get a windward midship dock line over a middle dock cleat and you should be fine.


Now if you execute this wrong, many things can go wrong. I'm not even sure I'd try it, but I do sail in with a 2400# boat frequently, but typically in 10knots or below.

On second thought, go with the majority, anchor out or tie up elsewhere til it eases.
 
#23 ·
As you get to the slip, quickly toss a line onto the leeward stern cleat of neighbor's boat.
Not sure I have heard of that one before.

Also not sure how I feel about it?

It is a bit of a liberty.
 
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#25 ·
20 knots is 20 knots. An inexperienced sailor on an unfamiliar boat with no motor and a tight dock. No shame in anchoring and calling for a tow.

The cost of repairs to his boat AND POSSIBLY OTHERS if it goes wrong will be much greater than the tow.
 
#29 ·
I have been in this exact circumstance on two occasions while singlehanded.

You don't need to pull into your own slip in this case. Choose the most advantageous slip for the circumstances and use that. Then move your boat later.

Turn head-to-wind to stop the boat, then turn back to the dock at low speed.

Remember that your fiberglass hull can take a lot of abuse and will flex when hitting a wooden dock, and will probably survive without damage. I once broke a wooden 4x4 on the dock but didn't even scratch my bow.
 
#30 ·
I've done a HOT dock, with my Capri 22 (slightly lighter than the Chrysler 22 by about 500lbs), with winds from this picture from the East, at 18mph. About 500 feet out I was full up main only (reefed). When I came to the end of the docks into the slot, I dropped the main, doing about 2.5 knots on the meter, just dropped the boom in the cockpit (no boomkicker or topping lift just sail and boom in the cockpit)... from there you drift bare poles and turn hard 90 into the dock. A smart skipper will roll the rudder back and forth a bit, to slow the boat more or NOT depending on what speed you want.



I am NOT saying you should do this if you've never tried it before. Honestly I'd have shot for the end of the dock, and tied there until things got better having not ever done this. But again, one should practice this, for JUST this reason.

But yeah, coming in hot, mainsail only... drop at the entrance to the dock... coast, then 1 shot 90 degree turn, which should drastically slow the boat... but then SPRING lines to stop you. A spring line should run as far aft as possible to a forward cleat! if you have a heavier boat, it should have a snubber to absorb shock if you use it to stop you. But on a 22 foot boat, the single braid likely has enough stretch of its own, is what I use on my 25.

So for this instance, anchor wait it out since you've not practiced this, or tow in (which is only if you HAVE to get back now), because that has it's own inherent risks.

Otherwise I'd suggest you attempt this to learn the skill in light air. use mainsail only, or genoa only whichever is easier for you to douse (if genoa I am thinking roller furling)...

This is how I was able to do a water rescue for a couple that could not get back aboard because of a rope ladder of their sailboat. My rigid swim ladder was easier to get aboard, so we pulled them out right away... I had no motor... they never even noticed I did it all without ever firing up the motor. I did it all with mainsail alone. Sailing up alongside their sailboat, allowing them to board, and sailed off. Took exactly 1 360 degree tack to do.

No I would not ROW a 22 footer, especially in 20 knot winds. Good grief.
 
#35 ·
I've done a HOT dock, with my Capri 22 (slightly lighter than the Chrysler 22 by about 500lbs), with winds from this picture from the East, at 18mph. About 500 feet out I was full up main only (reefed). When I came to the end of the docks into the slot, I dropped the main, doing about 2.5 knots on the meter, just dropped the boom in the cockpit (no boomkicker or topping lift just sail and boom in the cockpit)... from there you drift bare poles and turn hard 90 into the dock. A smart skipper will roll the rudder back and forth a bit, to slow the boat more or NOT depending on what speed you want.



I am NOT saying you should do this if you've never tried it before. Honestly I'd have shot for the end of the dock, and tied there until things got better having not ever done this. But again, one should practice this, for JUST this reason.

But yeah, coming in hot, mainsail only... drop at the entrance to the dock... coast, then 1 shot 90 degree turn, which should drastically slow the boat... but then SPRING lines to stop you. A spring line should run as far aft as possible to a forward cleat! if you have a heavier boat, it should have a snubber to absorb shock if you use it to stop you. But on a 22 foot boat, the single braid likely has enough stretch of its own, is what I use on my 25.

So for this instance, anchor wait it out since you've not practiced this, or tow in (which is only if you HAVE to get back now), because that has it's own inherent risks.

Otherwise I'd suggest you attempt this to learn the skill in light air. use mainsail only, or genoa only whichever is easier for you to douse (if genoa I am thinking roller furling)...

This is how I was able to do a water rescue for a couple that could not get back aboard because of a rope ladder of their sailboat. My rigid swim ladder was easier to get aboard, so we pulled them out right away... I had no motor... they never even noticed I did it all without ever firing up the motor. I did it all with mainsail alone. Sailing up alongside their sailboat, allowing them to board, and sailed off. Took exactly 1 360 degree tack to do.

No I would not ROW a 22 footer, especially in 20 knot winds. Good grief.
It's amazing how uncommon methods seem to frighten people or maybe oars seem "uncool" but I'd suggest oars are a VERY viable emergency alternative for a small boat. Check the discussion here:http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?428-Oar-locks and look at this page:A Pearson Ariel Page

Discounting things that are out of the ordinary takes a lot of choices off the table. Sailing, all options need to be considered, especially for emergency situations. It's called "thinking ahead."
 
#31 ·
I haven't read from anyone to warp in. Drop your hook to wait or pull in to the most convenient spot , then use warps. Done well, it's a beautiful thing to watch. Impressive and seamanlike too. Getting towed in also has its merits on both sides of the crash.
 
#32 ·
If this was me in my 2100# boat, in the marina I frequent (either one come to think of it), I would either sail to a dock T end or any other obviously easy place to plant it on sail, then move. Or, I always have my lunch hook at hand and could drop in seconds and take a moment to think.

Was the 20knots right on the boat in the marina or aloft? Makes a big difference.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for all the responses. Don't mean to offend, and it's POSSIBLE I could have docked it "hot docked", and I've done it before in a 25' Hunter, but that was a solo dock on bigger water. Perhaps there are people here that could have done it, but it would have been unadvisable regardless. The centerboard dinghy comparison is laughable - it's no comparison, I could have/would have docked a sailing dinghy all day, and twice on Sunday, in these conditions. Maneuverability, draft, all different.
 
#34 ·
With all due respect ... most of you are wrong here :)

Any method bringing the boat into the slip, which works without causing damages on things and people is good.

If you sail, tow, warp, swim anchor ... all good as long as it works and you are comfortable with it.

I have been sailing for more years than I would like to count. My first keelboat was 29 ft, 2-3 tonnes. I always sailed (sinle) into (and out of) harbour for a very simple reason: I had no engine.
One learns. Never any serious damages, but I still remember the crew on another boat which thougt I was going to hit them midships ...
When I could afford an OB I hid it below the cockpit, because they are so damn ugly! "Never" mounted.

Today I am sailing a ~40 ft boat, and it does happen that I have to sail into harbour. Still works, can be done. Also when single.

It is good to have the knowledge and experience to do this. I am totally comfortable doing this. Can do it on most boats, unfamiliar ones as well.

But then, we all start somewhere. Most, actually including me, prefer motoring into harbour - there are other boats in the harbour, some of the moving around in a unpredictable way.
It is OK to decide to request a tow.

Sugegst to everyone to practise how to break with the main. On smaller boats, to go backwards using the main. The sails stabilises and control the boat in a very good way - sailing boats are designed for that.
To use the rudder as pointed out. Usually works fine.

/J

BTW, anyone actually tried warping into a harbour when windy? It is heavy, wet, usually dirty. Slow. Most often not enough control on the boat: for each warp the boat is moved ahead 2-3-4-5 boatlengths, the control is about in the same range but often there is a need to control the boat within 1 boatlength.
 
#37 ·
Good luck you guys. Not me, wouldn't try it.

Here's why for me:
1. Need a way out if it doesn't work. Unless the fairway was wide enough that I could short tack back out if I missed, I'm not going in under sail only.

2. No right of way. This falls under narrow channel rules, lots of sailors think they have the right of way no matter what, if someone in a power boat happens to decide to leave when you're sailing in, that guys got as much rights as you have, and moreover is unlikely to understand your predicament or COLREGs.


We like sailing to moorings, sailing onto anchor, turning on the motor as infrequently as possible. It's good practice, and good boat handling. I've sailed boats in the 50 foot range into narrow harbors, but with the motor running knowing that I have few rights, and if I exercise the ones I have the other guy is unlikely to know about them.

IMHO, you need a plan B with any tight maneuver.

That said, if anyone wants to try it please post the video:D
 
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