Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

My biggest complaint about some double enders is their proclivity to hobby horse. I first noticed this when a friend purchased a 1930's Atkins Ingrid, a boat I'd always admired for her lovely lines. Not being a sailor at all, he asked me to teach him about the strings and things and some basic sailing stuff.
As we got the sails up in Mamala Bay, we sheeted in and set off for Diamond Head. Sitting at the helm, I could not believe how uncomfortable the motion in the cockpit was. We eased the sheets and she settled down some, but there was still considerably more motion than I was used to on my transom boat (a 1909 Wm. Hand, gaff ketch).
Over the years, in many anchorages throughout the would, I have noticed double enders hobby horsing at anchor. Some more than others, to be sure, but all, more than a wide stern, transom boat. Therefor, I would have to question the comfort, as a liveaboard boat, of some double enders versus a transom boat.
Of course, some boats with transoms and long overhangs or that are fine in the stern underwater, will hobby horse as well, so it's not quite as cut and dry as double enders versus transom boats in the hobby horsing department.
There are a lot of things to consider if one is seeking a good cruising boat that is also a good liveaboard. I know quite a few people with great looking sail boats, that sail well, but are generally less comfortable liveaboards than the boat would seem, just by looking a it.
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post #12 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Double enders have very small cockpits. They get pooped more often i.e. Waves over the back, the are old designs.

There isnt much going for them as a cruiser.
Tell that to Gary Burton .
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

My boat a Westsail 28 actually has a rather large cockpit , with a small foot well . The W32's have less seating in the cockpit because the boomkin is mounted in the cockpit as opposed to outside on the hull, also the the lazarette is raised 3" from seat level . But really if your looking for a off shore cruiser I wouldn't think your priorities wouldn't be entertainment space . So Sam what boats catch your eye ?
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post #14 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

Except that as a cruiser you spend so little time at sea and soooo much time on the hook with a drink in hand and friends in the cockpit...

BTW, I'm not knocking Westsails. I think they're nice boats, but the lack of support for your back in the cockpit would drive me nuts.

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post #15 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

Hi Mr. Bana, I know your not knocking Westies and good point about being on the hook with friends . But really I don't see the back support problem, we use those folding type chairs with the back rest .True there is no combing (I have seen some where they made them out of teak ) talk about cutting down the seating . I probably sound like a Westsail salesman , truth is these boats are only for a few . However they are a well kept secret as far as price . Look at the 32's the most expensive is only $59,500 . WESTSAIL - CRUISING BOATS FOR SALE
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post #16 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

Y'all may have missed or overlooked the OP's first sentence.

"I have started the long process of buying my first sailboat. "

This would, imho create a large ? mark about where and how the OP will sail, and amount of experience he/she may have.

Aesthetics and function would be the best reasons to chose such boats for the new to sailing type. Few, if any of us are ever going to "test" such boats in the kind of conditions that separate the pinch from the squared. (OK here's your cue single hand circumnavigators to tell your tales!)

Personally, I like a "wine glass" stern on a boat. typically seen in smaller boats. I've seen a few large boats with transoms that look almost like that. but really not. Also the Wine glass shape can be narrowed to look more like a champagne or tulip glass.. (don't get me started on my love of boats!)





No, that's not me in my younger days LOL sitting on the "sugar scoop" which seems to be the choice of many newer designs.

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post #17 of 77 Old 08-08-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

I am fond of Double enders. I have to say my favourite is really about 3different boats... but all the same boat. The Morris Frances 26. Also known as the Victoria Frances and the Victoria 800.. depending cabin design. They came as a cramped flush deck, a boxy trunk cabin, and a full length Cabin. They were also one of the most seaworthy boats for 26 feet with the majority of her weight (51%) in the keel as ballest. They might get pooped easier due to their diminutive size, but they are hard to knock over and come up quickly if they do.

A veteran of the Circumnavigation fleet
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post #18 of 77 Old 08-08-2014 Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

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Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
They look beautiful. But beyond that, I'm not sure there are really any advantages of a canoe stern/double-ender. Recall reading posts from Bob Perry asserting as much.

A *huge* cone is the loss of massive amounts of space in the stern area below and a much tighter/smaller cockpit. Especially compared to modern designs that have a tendency to have a very huge stern beam and open areas of the cockpit to allow water to flow out if a wave hits ya. Canoe stern, well, I think you're relying on scuppers draining and/or downflooding the living spaces!
Thanks for the post.. You are dead on speaking of Bob Perry. This same website that I found the 10 affordable Bluewater Sailboats list on also had an interview with Bob Perry. He designed a few but still seemed to wonder why someone would want a boat to sail in reverse. In my opinion he mainly said it was a marketing issue. Having a "dry" , safe and stable boat would be among my top priorities. Once again, Thank-You.
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

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Originally Posted by bblument View Post
My friend has a canoe stern, and he was extolling the virtues of that design to me at some point. I, of course, promptly forgot what they were because his boat's WAY out of my financial and experiential leagues so the info didn't stick into my admittedly "Need-to-know" based brain. I'll probably talk to him today while we're out on the water and I'll ask him again. May have had something to do with comfort with following seas?

Barry
Thanks for your input. I too had read that following seas were more easily dealt with. But I was concerned with stability and how much stability might be lost with a canoe stern. Thank-You- Sam
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post #20 of 77 Old 08-09-2014
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Re: Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

My boat comes in two versions. Aft cockpit (what I have) and Aft Cabin. Mine has a nice rounded stern and a large cockpit. If I had the right setup, I could lay down in the cockpit with room to spare (I'm 6'5"). I've seen one Aft Cabin version and it is smaller so I wouldn't be able to lay down comfortably in the cockpit. It's got a good shape to it. I do have aft storage that has some good space, at least big enough I could fit down into it as I have a few times for doing some work. It works for my needs. Can't comment on how it handles in large seas but other owners have crossed oceans frequently on this type of boat and feel completely safe.

I love my little Nor'sea 27.

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