Give AIS a rest - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree166Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,105
Thanks: 10
Thanked 142 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Give AIS a rest

This was a new phenomenon. Over these last few weeks, I've repeatedly heard sailboats hailing commercial vessels, having identified the commecial vessel via AIS. Generally, a good practice to establish contact and avoid confusion.

However, more often than not, the sailboat noted their AIS suggested they would "come close" or some such and either implicitly or, in one case, explicitly asked the tanker to alter course. One even hailed a cargo vessel to identify that it wasn't transmitting AIS, in violation of regs. This guy just become the AIS police? He even said, "you could have run us over". Wow, I was about a half mile away and would estimate visibility at about 2 million miles that day. Geesh.

First, your AIS is going to alert you to a potential conflict that may be well far enough away to avoid when you get there.

Secondly, these guys in the commercial vessels are at work, while we are tootling to our next sunset cocktail. I don't really care what the stand on rules are going to be when we get that close. I say, alter course early (before the rules apply) and give the fella a break.

I heard one yo yo hail and identify himself as the "sailboat, under sail, a half mile off your starboard bow, what are your intentions?" The cargo vessel replied "we will maintain course and speed". The sailboat replies that their AIS suggests a conflict, they are under sail, and again asks the cargo vessel their intentions. The cargo skipper replies, "we will maintain course and speed". There was tons of sea room in their vicinity.

Good for them.
jrd22, Maine Sail, gtod25 and 21 others like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Minnewaska For This Useful Post:
AKA44 (08-16-2014), billb (08-18-2014), BoatyardBoy (08-15-2014), capecodda (08-16-2014), christian.hess (08-15-2014), Multihullgirl (08-15-2014), oysterman23 (08-15-2014), SFH (08-16-2014)
  #2  
Old 08-15-2014
capta's Avatar
Master Mariner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 1,561
Thanks: 15
Thanked 79 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 4
capta is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

I can only imagine how much the commercial operators hate the pleasure boat community using AIS indiscriminately. Honestly guys, they don't want to talk to you and the only thing they do want from you, is for you to keep well clear of them.
Having stood on the bridge of ships and sailed small craft extensively, I can say without qualification that small craft are nothing more than bothersome mosquitoes to them.
Even in a potential collision situation at sea in the dark, you would be much better served to just avoid the situation than presuming that the watch stander on that bridge is even awake and that you both have a common language.
AIS may be a wonderful tool, but collision avoidance is still the responsibility of the smaller vessel.
__________________
"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to capta For This Useful Post:
BoatyardBoy (08-15-2014)
  #3  
Old 08-15-2014
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,937
Thanks: 27
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: Give AIS a rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
but collision avoidance is still the responsibility of the smaller vessel.
Huh?

Not according to the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posts: 1,077
Thanks: 21
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 9
ccriders is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

If recreational vessels continue to force the rules onto large commercial vessels, the next convention on COLREGS, which will not include the recreational crowd, will fix the problem. We might not like the solution.
There are times and places where strict adherence is required for safety reasons. But as pointed out by Minnewaska and Capta, get out of their way when you can. Don't make life unnecessarily combative.
John
RichH, vega1860, Mike2204 and 6 others like this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-15-2014
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,421
Thanks: 5
Thanked 72 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
...
AIS may be a wonderful tool, but collision avoidance is still the responsibility of the smaller vessel.
Collision avoidance is the responsibility of both parties and AIS is just one more tool that makes it easier to avoid a problem. The problem is not AIS, it is few jerks who have a new toy that makes it easier for them to show how important they are. I generally use AIS as a tool to allow we to keep out of the way (talking about open ocean here) but there have been a few times I have called ships to insure that safe passage is enhanced.

One thing I have noticed is the number of ships that make a minor course change to avoid me even when we are 5 to 10 miles apart. You will see them alter by 2 or 3 degrees until we pass and then they resume course.
__________________
Finished the circumnavigation in early February in Grenada. Have to work on a book project for the next several months so the boat will be waiting for next year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-15-2014
capta's Avatar
Master Mariner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 1,561
Thanks: 15
Thanked 79 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 4
capta is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Huh?

Not according to the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.
Oh for crying out loud. So you've read the rules, we applaud you.
However, the last vessel that can avoid a collision must avoid the collision, so in what universe do you believe a large commercial vessel would be that vessel? It will always fall on the smaller, more maneuverable vessel to avoid a collision in the end. But you keep telling yourself that you are the stand on vessel, when that ship can not possibly do what you, as an amateur pleasure vessel operator thinks it can, and runs you down.
__________________
"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-15-2014
JimMcGee's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Barnegat Bay, NJ
Posts: 1,421
Thanks: 24
Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 10
JimMcGee is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

I have to agree with Minne and Capta.

We're a LOT more maneuverable and have a LOT more to lose. How hard is it to tack or alter course a few degrees?

Can you imagine a tanker trying to slalom between all the pleasure boats out on a nice weekend?
__________________
95 Catalina 30 Island Time

ďIf a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most" - E.B. White
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,105
Thanks: 10
Thanked 142 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Give AIS a rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
I can only imagine how much the commercial operators hate the pleasure boat community using AIS .....
I was thinking the same thing.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,105
Thanks: 10
Thanked 142 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Give AIS a rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Huh?

Not according to the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.
I've never read it clarified when the stand on rules come into effect. Is it sufficient to say that your AIS will alert you to a potential conflict long before either vessel would be require to stand-on or adjust course in the colreg?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 08-15-2014
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,371
Thanks: 28
Thanked 83 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: Give AIS a rest

I can imagine it must be perplexing for a ship close off the coast passing some port on a Saturday afternoon... But one must realise not only do ships have to obey Colregs but also these days ships are very manoeuvrable. A button twiddle and they don't steamroller Mum, Day and the 6 kids having a day sail.

Sure there will be peanuts who abuse it, but they are, I'll bet, in the minority.

All ships have to do is run an extra mile off the coast, or if leaving/entering port stick to the channel and mention that in the VHF TXs.

Oh, one other thing, a joystick twiddling ship at 18 knots has much better chance of avoiding a sailboat going up wind, or deep downwind at 4 knots than the other way around.

Mark
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maps & Chartplotters & all the rest - radar, AIS, repeaters bluesky2 Electronics 6 06-17-2009 10:13 AM
And Now ... The Rest of the Story PBzeer Gear & Maintenance 22 06-13-2007 02:51 PM
Rest with Ice William Mahaffy Seamanship Articles 0 03-23-1999 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:53 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.