When Do You Reef? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree31Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 08-25-2014
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,887
Thanks: 9
Thanked 78 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Hallberg-Rassy 40. I reef on the helm, not wind speed. Wind speed varies with aspect angle but the helm angle doesn't.

With a 100% jib on the furler I reef the main every time I get weather helm consistently above 10 degrees. After the third reef in the main I furl the jib entirely and fly my staysail.

With a 135% on the furler I roll up the genoa to about 90% first and then start tucking in the main. Again, the threshold is 10 degrees of weather helm.

When things get really sporty I drop the main entirely and wrap the reefing line tails hard around the sail to reduce windage and sail on the staysail.
Yup I agree, about 10į of helm or when I can see that much of a rudder turbulence angle coming off the stern and showing the boat is skidding off to leewards ... its time to reef down a bit.
My boat is a cutter rig with the mast at nearly 50% LOA (not LOD) ... I reef 'back to front' as the combined CE is in the staysail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 08-25-2014
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,855
Thanks: 55
Thanked 64 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Yes. I have a removable inner forestay and can point much better with staysail alone on that than a partially furled jib on the forestay. It's better yet with some main up but weather helm increases significantly on my boat if heel angle gets too high.

Just for reference, I was in the English Channel once in a storm and handed off to the relief watch with guidance that "France is over there. Don't hit it. England is over there. Don't hit it either." We can make reasonable ground to windward hauling in the backstay and using the running backs with just the staysail. Sometimes not hitting anything is good enough.
Do you use the main if you have the runners engaged? Last year I installed an inner forestay with running backs to be used with the loose-footed trys'l and storm jib. I'd be afraid to chance using the main with those runners in place. A mistake/jibe could bring down the works if the boom slammed into the runners, especially in the heavy winds you'd be dealing with at the time.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 08-25-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,766
Thanks: 0
Thanked 134 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
There are too many variables to tie this down to a single number.
Exactly... Discussions of this sort are primarily of 'academic' interest, is seems... :-)

I think Auspicious and killarney have it right... I generally reef when I FEEL like doing so. Sea state will often have more to do with it than wind speed, and so many other considerations such as whether it's day or night, how hard-pressed I might be to make a destination or how tired I might be, and certainly whether I'm sailing offshore, or a more protected body of water... In a boat as small as mine, beating to weather offshore, sometimes when it's time to start thinking about reefing, you're often pretty close to the point where it might also be time to consider heaving-to for a bit... :-)

Finally, what time of the year are we talking about? Most folks haven't a clue, how much 'heavier' 18 knots of air on Albemarle Sound might be in January, than it is in July...

:-)


oysterman23 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 08-25-2014
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,946
Thanks: 8
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Exactly... Discussions of this sort are primarily of 'academic' interest, is seems... :-)

I think Auspicious and killarney have it right... I generally reef when I FEEL like doing so. Sea state will often have more to do with it than wind speed, and so many other considerations such as whether it's day or night, how hard-pressed I might be to make a destination or how tired I might be, and certainly whether I'm sailing offshore, or a more protected body of water...
When I posted the question, it primarily had to do with when your boat is overpowered (thus impacting rudder angle). Curious as to if larger heavier boats are able to handle higher wind speeds as oposed to a smaller lighter boat and what specific wind speeds they might handle.
christian.hess likes this.
__________________
In the beginning, there was only water...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 08-25-2014
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,724
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: When Do You Reef?

Casey, I have no idea what your boat and rig are like.

Or what your purpose in reefing is.

If you want to optimize boat speed, you reef according to the VPPs for your boat. You may be surprised to find that putting in the first reef and reducing the job at speeds as low as 15 knots can increase your effective speed, by reducing leeway and allowing the boat to stand up right.

If you can't access VPPs, you need to try different sail combinations at different wind speeds to find out what's "true" for your boat. (With whatever crew you normally sail with, as opposed to what the VPPs call for.)

Reefing? Generally, if you have to ask, you should have done so about fifteen minutes earlier. That's for comfort. Sometimes not reefing and letting the rail make a splash is great entertainment too.(G)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 08-25-2014
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,946
Thanks: 8
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Casey, I have no idea what your boat and rig are like.

Or what your purpose in reefing is.

If you want to optimize boat speed, you reef according to the VPPs for your boat. You may be surprised to find that putting in the first reef and reducing the job at speeds as low as 15 knots can increase your effective speed, by reducing leeway and allowing the boat to stand up right.

If you can't access VPPs, you need to try different sail combinations at different wind speeds to find out what's "true" for your boat. (With whatever crew you normally sail with, as opposed to what the VPPs call for.)

Reefing? Generally, if you have to ask, you should have done so about fifteen minutes earlier. That's for comfort. Sometimes not reefing and letting the rail make a splash is great entertainment too.(G)
I do not have a VPP for my boat, although as I remember S&S designed the boat to sail fastest at a heel angle of 23.5 degree. I normally sail at about 15 degree max as single handing normally, I do not like to press the boat. I am normally well reefed (over reefed) and could normally sail at least 2 knots faster (5.5 knots as compared to 7.5 knots) by taking a reef out (and probably be at the 23.5 degree), but that is really pushing the boat and keeping me on my toes.
__________________
In the beginning, there was only water...

Last edited by casey1999; 08-25-2014 at 06:47 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 08-25-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 200
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
glassdad is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

I tend to reef at 15 to 20 knots. It is more of a feel thing. If the boat feels overpowered, I will furl the Jenny. If it seems too windy, I reef when raising the main. It is easier to shake out a reef than to put one in. The boat is a Catalina 30.

I find that on most days that I reef, many others do not. I sail at a much more comfortable angle of heel and tend not to lose much , if any, boat speed.
__________________
s/v Odyssey
Catalina 30
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 08-25-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,003
Thanks: 2
Thanked 111 Times in 109 Posts
Rep Power: 8
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

Coronado 25, ten years out of Sausalito, in & outside of San Francisco Bay, in partnership with my Dad, who loved to "bury the rail", he knew better, he just liked to do it, used to make our daughters squeal & my wife dive for cover below.

I was the "referee". In the summer afternoons the stock sails would overpower the boat big time. Finally convinced my Dad to get a smaller jib & installed jiffy reefing, which was a big improvement.

When to reef? as others mentioned, when, or better yet, before the boat is overpowered, lots of variables, gut instinct. When my Dad wasn't with us, I would put the first reef in at the dock. When he was with us, it was a struggle as to when to reef.

Paul T
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 08-25-2014
SVAuspicious's Avatar
Mermaid Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,455
Thanks: 0
Thanked 118 Times in 105 Posts
Rep Power: 9
SVAuspicious will become famous soon enough
Re: When Do You Reef?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Do you use the main if you have the runners engaged?
Of course. They (or the staysail) wouldn't be much good otherwise.

Recognize that the runners are generally only needed upwind. You don't need them both - just the upwind one. When you tack you ease the upwind runner, tack, and take up the (new) upwind runner.

When you rig your trysail you have to take the runners into consideration so they don't foul one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
A mistake/jibe could bring down the works if the boom slammed into the runners, especially in the heavy winds you'd be dealing with at the time.
Off the wind move the runners back forward to their parking spot and rig a preventer on the main. I've never seen a mast pump on reefed main and staysail well off the wind.

The greatest value of a trysail is to protect your main so you can make good speed after things settle down. Personally I'm a "deep reef in the main" guy. I don't have a boom crutch and I'm not strong enough to get the main off the boom and below anyway so my judgment is to reef the heck out the sails. The worst I've been in is F8 rising 9 for a couple of days in the English Channel. YMMV.
smurphny, casey1999 and vtp like this.
__________________
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to SVAuspicious For This Useful Post:
smurphny (08-26-2014)
  #30  
Old 08-25-2014
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,946
Thanks: 8
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: When Do You Reef?

Real men don't reef:
Attached Thumbnails
When Do You Reef?-1pcs-large-size-boat-travel-font-b-storm-b-font-sea.jpg  
__________________
In the beginning, there was only water...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to reef a lateen with reef points MattMcc804 General Discussion (sailing related) 9 05-06-2013 12:52 AM
When to reef? lawsonmitchell Learning to Sail 10 04-15-2011 01:37 PM
Why reef at all...? backcreeksailor Learning to Sail 53 06-12-2009 05:45 PM
To reef or not to reef, that is the question blackpearlsailing General Discussion (sailing related) 12 05-28-2008 07:46 PM
My first Reef... Stevyboy General Discussion (sailing related) 11 04-08-2008 12:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:28 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.