Wonderful reasoning, and much in line with my own. My current boat has a deck stepped mast, and the lower shrouds should work quite well to support the mast in the case of a failure as they are 1.75" stainless struts, not wire...and take both compression and tension loads.
The compression post inside the cabin is not aluminum, but stainless steel, which is far stronger and more fatigue resistant IIRC.
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Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
I have a j/24 with a keel stepped mast. It's quite difficult to step without a crane. It's 37' long, and drops thru the deck about 4'. My buddy lost his mast on a j/24 recently, but it broke in 1/2 and he was able to stow the upper 1/2 and no one was injured. (the mast stays together because of all the halyards). I do get water in my bilge after a rain storm, but not enough to be a bother. I noticed the j/22 (a newer design) now has a deck stepped mast. I guess either is fine if it's done well. There is a beneteau for sail in the classifieds here that has a deck stepped mast but the stringer below it is broken, or bent down 3/4 inch and they've been quoted $10k for repairs.
Plus
Let me guess - you advocates of deck stepped masts own boats that are deck stepped? Everyone here with a boat is going to give you an answer that is consistent with the boat they own. My mast is keel stepped. We intentionally purchased a boat with a keel stepped mast. IMO, Cruising boats are much more likely to suffer mast failure from failed standing rigging. If a keel step mast has a rigging failure, you are much more likely to be able to save and jury rig than with deck stepped. I know of a keel stepped boat that had a collision that tore off all its standing rigging. The mast still stayed up. My mast has a huge gaping hole in it anyway (ie roller furled), so definately I want to keep it out of the water
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Susan
LaLeLu 40' Caliber
Merritt Island, FL
Tbear you don't mention what size boat you are looking for or what purpose.
I have to say that my first preference is for keel stepped in the belief of "KISS", "keep things simple stupid!". One spar, no deck fitting for it, no compresion posts or compression scheme, just seems like less chance for bad engineering or extra weight or other problems. I mean, SOMEthing has to carry the load down to the keel anyway, why not the mast itself?
But I readily concede that on small boats (<30') with a deck-stepped mast, it sure is nice to know there's no water coming in at the mast partners or from condensation in the mast. No water is a good thing.
There are other reasons, on racing boats like the J/24. You couldn't build a J/24 with a deck-stepped mast, because deck-stepped always means the mast sits on a fixed base plate. On racing boats you want to be able to MOVE the base of the mast fore and aft, so you can adjust the rake (amount of tilt) and yes, that's part of racing trim. But for cruisers? it just isn't done, or needed.
Odds are that whatever you are looking at, if it was engineered carefully, and maintained properly (big issue in used boats) it will be suitable for inshore and coastal sailing regardless of how the mast is stepped. Both can have problems, and if you are looking for a bullet-proof boat...there are bigger issues than the mast.
I currently own a keel-steeped racer-cruiser. I do get water in the forward sump after heavy rains, but that's a sponge and bucket five-minute job. While I am confident in my keel-step, I am aware that the step itself must be maintained. Mine has a touch of rot and will need cutting out eventually and a redo...big job. Also, the mast itself is pretty old school and blocks the passage forward. Ignore this job and you can have a situation where the mast can pound a hole through the keel. This happened with a poorly maintained C&C at my club.
All that said, I do like the solidity and simplicity of the "big stick" and I wouldn't change my current boat.
By contrast, the boat I am considering buying next for world cruising is deck-stepped and pivots on a massive tabernacle. The stays are many and sized "x-large" for offshore, and the compression posts below are two in number and are aluminum, allowing a two foot gap between them, almost like a doorway into the dining area, not to mention an excellent place to hold on in a seaway.
The advantages of a deck-stepped for the long-distance cruiser are considerable in terms of maintenance, shipping the mast for canals/low bridges (think of getting up rivers to hurricane holes in storm season) and maintenance/inspection, and in terms of lessening the need to go aloft...although this need is never gone entirely.
Finally, it does keep the deck watertight, or more so than keel stepped. In a breaking sea, this could be quite important.
It does depend on the build quality of the boat (this one I've described is a tank) and the intended use.
" Let me guess - you advocates of deck stepped masts own boats that are deck stepped? Everyone here with a boat is going to give you an answer that is consistent with the boat they own. "........ LaLeLu
Actually, I own a boat with a keel stepped mast, but I feel so strongly about having a deck stepped mast that I plan to convert my keel stepped mast to a Deck stepped mast with a moment connection at the deck before doing long distance offshore passages with my boat.
As I explained in other discussions, with a full moment connection at the deck, you are no more likely to loose the mast than you would with a keel stepped mast, you are equalliy likely to have a stub standing, but you have a way of jetisoning the mast before it holes the hull in heavy going.
I have noticed some of the Hans Christians have a deck-stepped mast with a keel support pipe. I had thought the deck-stepped design would have been a shortcut but now that I am looking into many other boats I see these are not builders that are characteristic of taking shortcuts.
It would be interesting to know how many of the top five companies for quality go with the deck stepped mast.
Deck-stepped masts are often heavier than comparable height keel-stepped masts, as the keel-stepped masts are supported a fair amount by the mast partner, where it passes through the deck.
Many good bluewater boats have a deck-stepped mast, including Cheoy Lee designs, the Hunter 426, Dufours, Hans Christians, Nimbles, Catalinas, Hallberg-Rassys, Malos, Sadlers, Albin Vegas, Cape Dorys, various Cals, Columbia 26s, Jeanneaus, etc...
Many of the boats listed are proven, capable blue-water boats. There are also many not-so-capable boats that are designed with deck-stepped masts, and there are many bluewater proven boats with keel-stepped masts.
I think a lot of what makes a deck-stepped mast preferable to a keel-stepped mast is personal preference. I prefer a deck-stepped mast, as they can be much easier to work with, especially in remote locations, where the equipment to deal with keel-stepped mast is not available.
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Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
I think a lot of what makes a deck-stepped mast preferable to a keel-stepped mast is personal preference. I prefer a deck-stepped mast, as they can be much easier to work with, especially in remote locations, where the equipment to deal with keel-stepped mast is not available.
This is why I favour deck-stepped over keel-stepped: ease of access, repair and occasionally transport. Given a strong, well-founded boat, and the ability to work with, and not against, heavy weather, the mast isn't going to be a worry anyway. If we ever do get rolled, I want to have as few holes on deck as possible.
I didn't read in detail all the posts. However, I own both a deck stepped 35' sailboat and a keel stepped Pearson 10M. I have read in the past where there is on the order of a 10 to 15% loss in column strength deck vs. keel stepped. That said, a keel stepped that jumps its shoe in the bilge can quickly hole a hull. Either one lying alongside after failing can hole the hull. I know of two deck stepped failures - not the step, but rigging failure - that each owner felt was preferable to a similar keel stepped failure. One was due to quick retrieval, the other was in 10' short, steep seas off Culebra. If the rigging failed and the mast jumped its shoe in the Culebra incident, it would've been messy below decks. Instead, the mast went over and had to be cut loose in 80' of water to avoid further hull damage. Like was said earlier, it's a preference thing, each having its own nuances but if properly engineered and constructed the deck stepped is fine. Mine isn't attached at the deck shoe, but ideally should be on a tabernacle and through-bolted.
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