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  #21  
Old 07-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfesq
I think and without checking you are required to have a USCG license to take on any passengers who pay or who are paid. So yes, if you just bring someone along to help you ferry your boat and its a friendly agreement that would be fine.
My last info was circa 1995, and if things haven't changed, a private yacht with or without an unlicenced USCG cannot accept any payment whatsoever. This includes food, drinks or any barter items of any sort. The vessel and the skipper must both have appropriate licences for the circumstances (size, # of passengers, and suchlike).

Paid crew might come into a different arena. As this was something I never had to deal with I didnt bother researching it.

Dewey
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  #22  
Old 07-19-2006
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Thank you for verifying my hunch Dewey. I know for a fact that it would be expressly excluded by any insurance policy.
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Benson
My last info was circa 1995, and if things haven't changed, a private yacht with or without an unlicenced USCG cannot accept any payment whatsoever. This includes food, drinks or any barter items of any sort. The vessel and the skipper must both have appropriate licences for the circumstances (size, # of passengers, and suchlike).

Paid crew might come into a different arena. As this was something I never had to deal with I didnt bother researching it.

Dewey
Actually, a recent ruling allows them to share costs of food, drinks or fuel, provided IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF PASSAGE. This means that it is perfectly acceptable for you and your friends to go out on your boat and share the costs of the trip....and not require a USCG license. However, you can not make they share the costs, they must do so voluntarily.

BTW, if they don't offer to do so voluntarily....they're really not much in the way of friends...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #24  
Old 07-19-2006
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Here is the difference legally. If you take three kids that are not your "friends" and they pay you a fee as well as sign an agreement. That is a business venture. The bottom line is that people should not play Charter Captain. If you are serious about trying to run a business get the license. Its like three weeks of studying and an exam.
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  #25  
Old 07-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfesq
Here is the difference legally. If you take three kids that are not your "friends" and they pay you a fee as well as sign an agreement. That is a business venture. The bottom line is that people should not play Charter Captain. If you are serious about trying to run a business get the license. Its like three weeks of studying and an exam.
Very true...but it doesn't matter if you pay them or they pay you IIRC... As long as there is a signed agreement, and there is a fee paid or exchange of some monetary value (this could be barter) for services either provided or rendered, then you're probably causing serious problems with respect to your insurance policy.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 07-20-2006 at 03:14 AM.
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  #26  
Old 07-19-2006
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You are right Big Dog. So here is the moral:
1. Be nice to the Do the Dew Kids..
2. If people jump ship they are not necessarily dicks...maybe you are one as well..
3. Quit playing Captain.... or Batman for that matter.
4. Get a License.
5. Understand that a passenger can never waive your negligence.
6. Your insurance will not cover your fantasy charter service.
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  #27  
Old 07-19-2006
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Quote:
Actually, a recent ruling allows them to share costs of food, drinks or fuel, provided IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF PASSAGE. This means that it is perfectly acceptable for you and your friends to go out on your boat and share the costs of the trip....and not require a USCG license. However, you can not make they share the costs, they must do so voluntarily.

BTW, if they don't offer to do so voluntarily....they're really not much in the way of friends...
And they probably wouldn't be invited to go sailing again, either.

You might note that the very first question on my crew questionaire attempts to make it clear that the trip is not a commercial one (no payments shall be exchanged), and I also specifically avoided using the term Captain anywhere, instead referring to the boat owner, person-in-charge, watch leader, etc...

Regards,

Tim
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  #28  
Old 07-19-2006
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Tim I read your agreement and I still think its a risky proposition. If you just moving the boat south for the winter and you are picking up crew for this purpose you might be okay. You insurance company will always answer your questions about coverage.
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  #29  
Old 07-20-2006
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Give a crap for some legal papers

Surffeq or what ever your name is you don't have a clew about cruising do you. You really donít have a word worth listing to on this matter because you express your lack of knowledge about the sea in your post. 30 days most of it off shore is not a weekend by the bay.
I ask them to pay nothing but to supply their own food drinks ECT. I paid the tab for marinas fuel and all other cost. It took two months to ready the yacht for this trip. Lots of planning and making sure that everything was in as good of shape as it could be to ensure the crews safety which is a captainís duty. This was to be a working learning cruise not a pleasure cruise and that was set in stone from theĒ get goĒ. I sail like people walk in the park I am very forgiving due to my ability to sail single handed and the only thing that got on edge was me having to check our course every two hours for a month. No sleep will do that to you and finding people off course by several miles over and over was a safety issue which as the captain I had to address. Oh and the missing $400 was a real drag, I am not pointing any finger at anyone but it did not walk off the boat buy its self. For the most part they were ok but if you have a problem with something you speak up thatís what a crew is suppose to do not hide feelings. It was my job to teach them seaman ship not baby sit them. A captain that becomes lax in his authority soon looses control of his crew. As far as all this Captains liscence crap I have seen so many captains with a certificate that could not sail out of a harbor let alone cross an ocean that it makes me sick. Captainís liscence should only be given to experienced captains not computer junkies. And I would like to say that respect for the captain is part of seamanship. In closing the thing to do would be to have waited till I returned to the boat before departing. If the waited ten minutes more it would not have been a big deal. I was one hundred yards from the boat walking as fast as in could in 100 + temperatures when they rolled past me in a cab. So between the 38 year old smoker huffing two packs a day and missing money and doing without my favorite cruising juices I think they had it easy Could have raised all kinds of hell but I let it slide since the three of them were not well suited for each other I figured why make it worse. So if you tell someone itís a working cruise and they don't work well I guess that makes you a grouchy old man. I sail like a true sailor I keep to tradition when I can and so if you need a contract bugger off mate. I have no use for whining even if I do my share of it that ticks me off to. So the sea is my home, donít pollute it with your legal crap. Be a sailor not a lawyer.
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  #30  
Old 07-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnaway
I ask them to pay nothing but to supply their own food drinks ECT. I paid the tab for marinas fuel and all other cost. It took two months to ready the yacht for this trip. Lots of planning and making sure that everything was in as good of shape as it could be to ensure the crews safety which is a captain’s duty. This was to be a working learning cruise not a pleasure cruise and that was set in stone from the” get go”. I sail like people walk in the park I am very forgiving due to my ability to sail single handed and the only thing that got on edge was me having to check our course every two hours for a month. No sleep will do that to you and finding people off course by several miles over and over was a safety issue which as the captain I had to address. Oh and the missing $400 was a real drag, I am not pointing any finger at anyone but it did not walk off the boat buy its self. For the most part they were ok but if you have a problem with something you speak up that’s what a crew is suppose to do not hide feelings. It was my job to teach them seaman ship not baby sit them. A captain that becomes lax in his authority soon looses control of his crew. As far as all this Captains liscence crap I have seen so many captains with a certificate that could not sail out of a harbor let alone cross an ocean that it makes me sick. Captain’s liscence should only be given to experienced captains not computer junkies. And I would like to say that respect for the captain is part of seamanship. In closing the thing to do would be to have waited till I returned to the boat before departing. If the waited ten minutes more it would not have been a big deal. I was one hundred yards from the boat walking as fast as in could in 100 + temperatures when they rolled past me in a cab. So between the 38 year old smoker huffing two packs a day and missing money and doing without my favorite cruising juices I think they had it easy Could have raised all kinds of hell but I let it slide since the three of them were not well suited for each other I figured why make it worse. So if you tell someone it’s a working cruise and they don't work well I guess that makes you a grouchy old man. I sail like a true sailor I keep to tradition when I can and so if you need a contract bugger off mate. I have no use for whining even if I do my share of it that ticks me off to. So the sea is my home, don’t pollute it with your legal crap. Be a sailor not a lawyer.
First off, it doesn't sound like you did a whole lot of teaching of seamanship. If you're planning and preparation took two months, then why did you not have the proper supplies of drinks in store? And if it was their duty to supply their own food and drink....why didn't you make sure they did so... after all—you were the captain.

It also sounds like you were too gutless to confront them, regardless of what kind of face you put on your actions right now. Even if they weren't being paid, or paying to crew aboard your ship, preparation for a 30-day working voyage is not something that they sound like they were able to properly plan for... and apparently you gave them no such assistance in that area. If they were responsible for their own food and drinks, taking yours is nothing less than theft... as is the missing money.

It doesn't really sound like the crew had any respect for you...and given your whining about the way the cruise turned out, I'm not completely surprised. You say you have no use for whining, but isn't that exactly what your original post is all about...

Before I am sailing with anyone new, even if for just a day, I make sure to meet them first—or they have to have someone I trust vouch for them. I also make sure to find out if they have any specific food allergies, dietary requirements, or preferences if I can. This goes a long way to making sure that the meals are at least going to be shared, and that they do not starve. It also goes a long way to weeding out the riff-raff and the slackers.

I also have a very strict no-smoking policy aboard my boat. If they smoke, they're not welcome to do so aboard. Even my friends who do smoke, respect me enough to abide by my policy, and do not light up on-board.

I generally will provide food and drinks for my crew, while aboard the boat. Off the boat, they're on their own. If they have a preference, and haven't voiced it prior to the trip...and don't like the selection of drinks and food...well, then they're on their own again. I give them every opportunity to do so...and if they don't—that's their own fault, and they have to pay the price for it.

My boat is far too small for me to put up with crap from anyone on...and I don't. It is MY BOAT...so it goes by MY RULES.
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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 07-20-2006 at 03:10 AM.
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