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Florida is at it again

64K views 470 replies 81 participants last post by  dennismenace111 
#1 ·
As most of us are aware there is legislation pending in the Florida Legislature that would ban overnight anchoring anywhere within 200 feet of any waterfront homes, whether they have boats or even docks or not. This provision could have significant adverse effects on the freedoms of cruisers and boaters cruising Florida waters. The Seven Seas Crusing Association (SSCA) have engaged to strongly oppose this.

The background is really quite simple. First, there is a problem with derelict boats in Florida just as there is in some other states. Cruisers and other boaters are as disturbed by the problem of derelict boats as anyone else. Second, there is an unpleasant movement by wealthy waterfront homeowners who feel they have bought the view with their property and want to preclude anchoring in "their" view.

SSCA has effective volunteer and professional lobbyists meeting with members of Florida leadership, committee chairs, committee members, committee staff, and member staff. They are making progress.

You can help. We NEED your help. Here is what you can do:

1. Join SSCA. It's the best $55 you can spend each year to protect your rights and to gain other benefits of membership.

2. If you are a Florida voter, write to your state representative and senator making clear you are watching them. See http://www.ssca.org/downloads/ccc/SSCA_Anchoring_brochure.pdf .

3. If you are not a Florida voter, write your Federal representatives to let them know you are concerned about pending restrictions on the Federal rights to navigation.

4. Contact the manufacturers of equipment you own or are considering purchase and ask them to wake up the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) and get them in the game.

5. Write to BoatUS Government Affairs ( BoatUS - Contact BoatUS Government Affairs ) and let them know this issue is important to you.

SSCA is a global organization. We care and work in support of cruisers across the globe. It happens that Florida, a cruising waypoint that many of our members pass through, seems to be sending a message that Florida wants our money but not us. We've been successful in Florida before. We've been successful in Maryland and Rhode Island and Mexico. We need your help to be successful again.

For more information about SSCA see Welcome to the Seven Seas Cruising Association ; for member benefits see The Seven Seas Cruising Association - IX - Member Benefits .
 
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#63 · (Edited)
#66 ·
According to the FL Senate website the bill will be on the Environmental Protection Committee agenda on Tuesday March 31st at 1:30.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2015/1548

The list of FL senators on that committee:

Charles S. Dean Sr., District 5 (R) Chairman
Wilton Simpson, District 18 (R) Vice-Chairman

Thad Altman, District 16 (R)
Greg Evers, District 2 (R)
Alan Hays, District 11 (R)
David Simmons, District 10 (R)
Christopher L. Smith, (D)
Darren Soto, District 14 (D)

Maybe send them a last-minute email voicing your opposition and tell them that you will urge your own representatives to oppose the bill if it comes out of committee.
 
#68 ·
SSCA is rounding people up for a pre-brief and to testify on Tuesday.
Can you tell me more about this? (Not a SSCA Member, shame on me....)

As a waterfront property owner and a multi-boat owner, I may be able to "clear my schedule" to drive to Tallahassee on Monday.
 
#69 ·
There will be more specifics The Seven Seas Cruising Association - IX - Concerned Cruisers later today. The hearing just got scheduled and we're working on the details of where to meet ahead of the committee meeting. You can also contact ccc@ssca.org . There is a lot going on so please only e-mail if you realistically expect to make Tallahassee in time for hearings Tuesday afternoon (which means pre-brief sometime in the morning).
 
#72 ·
I understand there are significant restrictions to the proposed setback. However, I'm in the Canaveral area right now and its gong to be hard for statewide elected reps to imagine a restriction. We all know the rivers aren't deep enough across to utilize it all, but not the land lubber from the shore. They will think, let them all come here, if they want to anchor. Educating reps is important.

However, I have to add this. I've seen two sailboats at anchor with no masts. I've seen several others that clearly look derelict. If I was a FL resident, I would want that dealt with too. I would not expect boats in bristol condition, just seaworthy.
 
#76 ·
Maybe it would be a feasible project to survey and identify more anchorages. I have all the published anchorage books for along the ICW but constantly see more unidentified spots where anchoring is possible, even for my 5.5' draft. Why isn't it on the table to actually dredge some obvious anchorages? Might this not kill two birds with one stone, thinning out the compacted fleets that tend to huddle in certain popular spots and actually increasing the choices to drop the hook? I just got back from months of cruising FL and can certainly see the shoreside objections to derelict boats. They really are eyesores. Perhaps some USCG target or underwater demolition practice is in order:)
 
#82 · (Edited)
Maybe it would be a feasible project to survey and identify more anchorages. I have all the published anchorage books for along the ICW but constantly see more unidentified spots where anchoring is possible, even for my 5.5' draft. Why isn't it on the table to actually dredge some obvious anchorages? Might this not kill two birds with one stone, thinning out the compacted fleets that tend to huddle in certain popular spots and actually increasing the choices to drop the hook?
Hmmm, so Florida - after the inevitable commissioning of a few years of Environmental Impact Studies - should be dredging new anchorages using public funds so that large numbers of cruising sailors from out of state and Canada don't have to pay for marina slips, or mooring balls?

Yeah, I'm sure all Floridians will be fully supportive of that sort of use of their tax dollars... :)

Sorry, but "dredging new anchorages" is - at least on the East coast - is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

I just got back from months of cruising FL and can certainly see the shoreside objections to derelict boats. They really are eyesores. Perhaps some USCG target or underwater demolition practice is in order:)
Here's a classic example of why the disposal of derelicts in Florida can be so problematic... This Hunter 30 still sits on the beach in front of an upscale oceanfront neighborhood in Vero Beach almost 2 months after its drunken liveaboard owner ran his 'home' up onto it, then "high-tailed it", leaving the state to deal with the mess...

Now, it sounds like it may have to sit there a while longer, until the sea turtles are finished doing their thing...

:)

http://www.veronews.com/32963_featu...cle_eecbf6d6-d99e-11e4-9624-db28201dc72a.html

 
#77 ·
Why isn't it on the table to actually dredge some obvious anchorages?
These attempts to restrict anchoring are not about finding solutions.

All of these attacks on boaters are the direct result of one mans money and his political connections. Fred Karlton does not want you or anyone else anchoring behind his house in Miami Beach and he is willing to spend thousands of dollars and political clout to do it.

I attended the committee hearing on SB 1548, more than 14 objections and only two or three supporters. Yet, passed committee.......

It would probably all go away if everyone promised not to anchor in Sunset Lake.......
 
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#78 ·
Can you imagine what Florida is going to be like when people like Fred Karlton have run the last remaining native Floridians out of the state? It's going to be just what they want. New York and New Jersey with good weather.

Thank God hurricanes can't be bought off, or these people would be trying to take over the Bahamas next.

I'm just hoping the Cuba situation can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Florida can then go completely New Jersey.
 
#85 ·
Bahamas is getting greedy too. No one mentions this, but they DOUBLED the entrance fee for boats between 30-35 feet. It used to be boats under 35 feet, $150, over 35 $300. Now its under 30 for $150, and anything over $300.

There is even talks about regulating/charging for anchorages everywhere on a per day basis like they do in parts of the Caribbean and Europe. Florida may be getting annoying, but nowhere near as bad as the rest of the world.

But I get the point. Supply and demand. I *HOPE* the opening of Cuba is going to smack some common sense into the Bahamians when they realize the golden goose of US boaters will now passing them by. Imagine a great trip down the keys then off to an exotic lush isle vs. the hardscrabble expensive spits of rock that the Bahamas are. No offense, but no one goes to the Bahamas for the scenery...the actions is all under water and how many pretty sand beaches can one look at for so long?
 
#83 ·
The idea that you could combine anchoring restrictions in front of peoples homes (ie within 200 ft) by providing anchorages elsewhere is a good idea. But probably impractical. As Jon says, the land lubbers aren't going to rally around spending money, when they could just shoo you away.

There are really two different strategies at play here and I'm not at all clear which one is being executed.

The first is that the State doesn't have the right to restrict the use of a Federal waterway. In that case, all our arguments over fairness, alternatives, user testimony, etc, is moot. It's a simple matter of law.

The second is a negotiation on fairness and historic anchoring rights on waterways. That's where some negotiation is warranted. While I'm sure there is a poster-child rich dude that is pressing, this is simply an issue that the majority of land owning voters will not understand. You drive over a bridge spanning the inter-coastal and it would look like there are tons of places to anchor, without being that close to a house. We know that all that water isn't necessarily deep enough and we can't anchoring with the channel. It's just not the way it looks to the average Joe. If this is the strategy, there needs to be education and compromise.
 
#84 ·
There are really two different strategies at play here and I'm not at all clear which one is being executed.

The first is that the State doesn't have the right to restrict the use of a Federal waterway. In that case, all our arguments over fairness, alternatives, user testimony, etc, is moot. It's a simple matter of law.
Which requires a test case, that then has to wind it's way through the legal system. A process than can take several years depending on how high it's appealed.

The second is a negotiation on fairness and historic anchoring rights on waterways. That's where some negotiation is warranted. While I'm sure there is a poster-child rich dude that is pressing, this is simply an issue that the majority of land owning voters will not understand. You drive over a bridge spanning the inter-coastal and it would look like there are tons of places to anchor, without being that close to a house. We know that all that water isn't necessarily deep enough and we can't anchoring with the channel. It's just not the way it looks to the average Joe. If this is the strategy, there needs to be education and compromise.
Which costs money. BoatUS is the only real lobbying group for boaters. I doubt they have the funds to undertake such a campaign.

Better to try and prevent it from becoming law in the first place.
 
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#92 ·
NMMA has been a grudging participant.
It seemed worse than that to me. The NMMA representative waived in support of the bill without any objections......

Other than reps from BoatUS, SCCA, there were only a handful of other people there to object to the bill. Of course Fred Karlton was there and was in support of it.

I know it's a PIA to attend, but we are going to need more resistance when this thing comes up again. Even then, I'm not sure it will make a difference. About 80% of the speakers were against the fracking bill and they passed it anyway.
 
#93 ·
Florida spends BIG dollars on promoting tourism (Visit Florida). I think the effort is run out of the governors office.

Has anyone tried contacting the tourism board and showing them what a huge black eye this is for Florida tourism? There's been a ton of bad press on this.

It might also make a good story on for one of the networks...
 
#100 ·
You guys are preaching to the choir if you believe you need to convince me. If you are right and this new anchoring thing is going to affect the bottom line of the resturants etc. why aren't they making their voices known? Those people have a voice, but out of state boaters don't and that is just the way it is. Don't go off track, it is as simple as that.
 
#102 ·
Boot Key Harbor's Mooring Field and the City Marina is a success story when it comes to this kind of operation. And, yes, those cruisers spend lots of money. Of course, the reason they spend lots of money is most things are pretty expensive in the keys. If you wish to enjoy those swaying palm trees, warm weather, incredible sunsets, turquoise colored waters, great fishing, snorkeling, diving, and excellent day sailing, then you know right up front that it's gonna cost some big bucks. Of course, this is the case in ANY resort areas of the US. The cost of renting a home in Marathon is very expensive, but it's about the same price in Ocean City, MD, anyplace along the Jersey Shore, Mystic Harbor, most of southern CA, etc...

Unfortunately, south Florida's tourist season is very short, especially in the keys. The tourista/cruisers are only there from about November 1st till the end of April. On May 1st, there's a mass exodus, only a handful of boats in Boot Key Harbor, mainly at the marina, and you could shoot a cannon ball down US Route 1 and likely not hit anything other than one of the bridges.

Ironically, the fear of hurricanes, which are pretty rare in the lower keys, and the dreaded rainy season seems to make folks scurry north. In reality, I've been to the keys in mid June, the weather was nowhere near as hot as it was in Baltimore and the humidity was half what Baltimore experienced during the same time.

I suspect that in the not too distant future, south Florida and the keys will becomes a year-round vacation destination area - not just a place for the snow birds. More and more folks seem to be traveling to Mexico during the summer months as well. And, I also suspect that Florida's legislators will do something to make traveling to those areas by boat more inviting. I was amazed at how many small businesses close up during the summer months in the keys. Believe me, they would rather remain open and packed with tourista/cruisers laying down their hard earned dollars.

Cheers,

Gary :cool:
 
#103 ·
I suspect that in the not too distant future, south Florida and the keys will becomes a year-round vacation destination area - not just a place for the snow birds.
I moved away from the Keys/S. Florida in '98 as it was my impression this had already happened...but not because of it...there were better economic opportunities north and away from FL. That said, I recall the other locals grumbling in '90 that 'there wasn't any 'season' anymore.
 
#104 ·
I have been looking at the charts for Florida, that's a lot of skinny water and now they want to make anchoring difficult. Do they want visitor to their State.
 
#110 ·
#111 ·
This whole things sounds a bit like a Dave Barry column.

Are there any news outlets that might do a story on how one puffed up rich guy has the legislature screwing with Florida tourism just to please him?

I wonder if some bad publicity might make it go away?
 
#112 ·
#117 · (Edited)
so one guy with a pile a of cash can buy any legislation he wants.
Most citizens go through life kind of suspecting that this is the way things work, but hoping they are wrong. It's only when they get interested in one particular piece of legislation, that they find out that their original suspicions were correct and things are much worse than they ever dreamed.

I worked on a pubic corruption squad for three years, with over fifty per cent of our time investigating state legislative officials for bribery. The stuff I saw and heard during that three years pretty much made me into a unrepairable cynic when it comes to how laws get passed, and why.

The most disturbing thing was the undercover operations, and watching people take our bribe money so casually that you knew there was no way this was their first rodeo. The other thing that was surprising, was fining out just how little money it took to bribe most of them (about the same amount as it takes to have someone killed coincidentally). On TV it's always tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. In real life, a few thousand will usually suffice for either one.

But, I think we all knew how this one was going to come out in the end. Boaters have to win every single time. Wealthy landowners and real estate brokers, only have to win once and can reset the fight over and over until they get that one win.

Thank God for the Bahamas and hurricanes! :)
 
#113 ·
Watching this bill pass through committees makes me sick to my stomach...:puke

In both instances the bill has been brought up at the end of the meeting. In todays case they actually brought it up, with about a half hour left, then postponed it, until you guessed it, four minutes left.

Only let two people speak, both were against. Then instead of letting the others comment, read the names of the people opposed and the people for.

More than 12 in opposition, only 4 in favor.... Passed committee.

You can watch video of the BS here, skip to about the last half hour:
https://www.flsenate.gov/media/videoplayer?EventID=2443575804_2015041158

Thank you Tampa Sailing Squadron for showing up and bringing out some troops. Sorry the SOB's didn't let all of you speak.
 
#116 ·
Money does influence politics. Both parties. I'm sure it plays a big role in this issue.

However, the balance of people that appear at hearings is never going to decide a committee's direction. Everyone knows that the public is not proportionately represented at these hearings.

In this case, I have no doubt that landlubbers (who outnumber boats by hundreds of multiples) either don't think the proposed restrictions are all that onerous or sympathize with owners of expensive water front real estate, as most wish they lived there.

It's not just money. It's being in the minority in a democracy. That's why the strategy to defeat this is complex. Education and compromise or the wee little minority interest in this democracy will be rolled over like a can on a highway.
 
#118 ·
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