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A little Pollution Anyone?

6K views 61 replies 21 participants last post by  Group9 
#1 ·
Laughable how we float on pins and needles in our boats so we don't commit the unthinkable crime of leaking anything into our pristine waters. God forbid the USCG or EPA should observe a small slick or suspect a head discharge coming from a sailboat. Then, on a regular basis headlines such as this appear:http://poststar.com/news/local/million-gallons-of-partially-treated-wastewater-discharged-into-hudson-river/article_f92e5e75-e6fc-5ff9-bb66-7e55063ee1c1.html#utm_source=poststar&utm_campaign=hot-topics-2&utm_medium=direct

What is that odd odor on the Hudson? :):ship-captain:
 
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#3 ·
I understand the point, is it that you are sad that you aren't seeing your name and the name of your in print for polluting?
 
#7 ·
Still, when I'm in the back of a little creek, I am glad I'm not directly discharging into the water I plan on jumping into. In that little creek, I am the biggest potential polluter (if you ignore that Perdue chicken factory behind the edge of the trees...)
 
#9 ·
Doesnt matter any more when swimming in the Chesapeake as the danger of getting a massive and severe mycobacteria (tuberculosis, etc.) skin infections during the summer is becoming astronomical, all thanks to the constant massive sewage releases from (Back Creek) Baltimore, etc.
Got the tee-shirt, twice; and, know quite a few others with the same.
 
#8 ·
It's very true that industrial activities (both public and private) often face much lighter environmental rules and regulations than individuals. Private companies will argue they need the lighter environmental rules so they can be competitive and create jobs :rolleyes:. And when they make an oops, we slap them with a fine and they promise never to do it again (yeah, right...). Public services make the laws and either exempt themselves or get away with it b/c, well, they make the laws :eek:.

This leaves us poor individual slobs facing the most stringent rules and regs, and the harshest enforcement and real penalties.

Still ... I'd rather not have people crapping from their boats in closed waterways. Open water, or places of good flow, no problem. But in small, sheltered anchorage it's just plain rude.
 
#11 ·
One of the things I've always wondered is how some idiot came up with the idea to dump human waste in the very waters from which they derive their food, drinking water and bathe with? Never really made a lot of sense to me. Even my cat is smart enough to bury her poop.

Ironically, I just noticed on many of the TV commercials pertaining to US beach resorts, they colorize the water a brilliant blue, when in reality, the waters of much of the US coastal waters are brown from the effluents discharged from the estuaries and rivers. When I was a 12 year old kid in Chesapeake Bay, you could stand in chin deep water at North Point and still see your feet. Today, at the same location, you cannot see your feet standing ankle deep in the same water. And, as stated above, you would likely develop a mycobacterial infection.

All the best,

Gary :cool:
 
#12 ·
Having traveled various places around the world I'd say we in the U.S. have some of the cleanest waters in the world these days at least from what I can see in my area. These days I rarely will see a diesel sheen on the water and have swam in my harbor for years without any ill effects. Though as those who monitor the waters have less and less work they tend to look for other places regulate and justify continuing budgets. As the plumbers say: : "sheet flows down hill" and the recreational boater eventually becomes a target.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Imagine living before the 'age of the sanitation' (late 1800s) and being in almost any city with human and horse, etc. waste being knee deep on every street.... still done in many places in the orient. Just dump your 'night soil' out the window onto the street for those 'government workers' with 'honey buckets' to come along once a month to gather it, only to then dump it in the river, etc.
If you cant fathom such a stink, go to Back Creek that drains out of Baltimore. Aroma-wise, sometimes the East River in NYC is close.
 
#14 · (Edited)
My town is on the Hudson and they dump the treated sewage into the river and at the same time they have a water intake for the drinking water plant about 400 yards away. It's idiotic!

And we have pristine lakes to draw from. But the Hudson is limitless, as is the greed of our town officials. The bottom line is this - its all about money. Developers, town officals, etc.... they are so pro buisness they will drink pee. They want to tell developers to move right in with 800 townhouses wherever they want. And putting a sand filter and chlorinator along the banks of the Hudson is the cheapest thing they figure. Idiots.

Despite the idiocy, the Hudson seems pretty clean. Has been getting a lot of sediment which turns it murky. But the river is full of huge fish, see them all the time when sailing.

The big danger to the Hudson now is these crazy oil trains! Millions of gallons of highly flammable balkan crude rolling along one derailment away from no fish, no birds , no sea life in the river - 5 times a day!
 
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#18 ·
Here in Washington our Department of Ecology claims that eliminating boaters’ Type 2 MSD’s would “protect water quality” because these systems “don't treat sewage adequately to more stringent state water quality standards”.

Here’s “Type 2 MSD” systems stack up. Municipal wastewater plants regularly dump about 190,000 million gallons per year of treated sewage into Puget Sound with an allowed bacteria limit of 400 (per 100ml). Overflow treatment plants adds 1,200 million gallons with limits up to 2,800. Finally about 2,000 million gallons of water goes untreated into the Sound. By contrast MSDs dump about 1.5 million gallons per year into the Sound with a bacteria limit of 200. That’s a limit that’s lower (½ to 1/7th) than the “stringent” standards being applied elsewhere. Adding it up boaters contribute less than four one millionths (0.0000037) of the bacteria being discharged to the Sound.

While no one wants dirty water we’re all, boaters included, entitled to regulatory common sense
 
#20 ·
.....
While no one wants dirty water we're all, boaters included, entitled to regulatory common sense
I just spit coffee out of my nose. "regulatory common sense" -- that's hilarious. And of course, you have actual facts... That's pretty funny too. Remember, those folks that come check if your Y valve is shut have a vested interest in making sure they remain having jobs.

I've always failed to understand the massive attention given to the head on my boat. It's way way way way way down on the worlds pollution problem list. There's a continent sized pile of garbage in the pacific ocean, and everybody seems more concerned on if my Y valve is open. I don't even _have_ a Y valve.
 
#21 ·
We were caught in a 60,000 gallon fuel oil spill into Narragansett Bay that didn't even make the news, because the company that did it was one of the largest and most powerful in the state. Fuel covered the bay from East Providence to the Newport Bridge for a week.
But should I spill 6 ounces at the fuel dock.........
 
#22 ·
When I kept my boat on Lake Champlain, the head thru-hull had to be plugged, by law. None of those polluting, cheating, despicable Y-valve-owning boaters allowed!.... Meanwhile, the runoff from thousands of acres of cow pasture $hyt in Vermont flows directly down into the water. It smells simply wonderful, earthy on a hot, still, humid day. It also turns the water a wonderful color green at peak season. Oh well, that will all be moot when the first oil train derails and tumbles directly into the lake. Just a matter of time until that happens because the tracks run the length of the lake, sometimes a few feet from water's edge.
 
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#24 ·
My Dad always said that all municipal water intakes should be downstream from there sewage treatment plant discharge areas. I think it makes sense. As to who is responsible, I think developers would not develop if consumers were not buying, but then that casts an aspersion in a direction I am sure you are not comfortable with.......

My son caught a horrible skin infection in Honolulu Bay when they dumped a large amount of untreated sewage when they had a "malfunction" of their wastewater treatment facility. They never admitted responsibility but they paid his medical bills.

Those of you who trust the government are in for a shock.
 
#25 ·
Keep in mind that at one time, there were 130 wastewater treatment plants on the Susquehanna River alone, and there is an equal number of municipal drinking water plants along the river's shores. Everyone from NY downriver is drinking recycled wastewater. Additionally, in southern CA, according to an article in The Legion Magazine, 30 percent of southern CA's drinking water now comes from recycled wastewater. The water is heavily chlorinated and you can smell the chlorine as soon as you turn on the spigot.

Gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling, doesn't it!

Gary :cool:
 
#27 ·
Back about 25 years ago, I had the opportunity to project-manage the construction of a treatment plant for a major development. The engineers always said things like, "You'll be able to drink the water that comes out of this plant." Hmmm. I always stress the "YOU." :)
 
#28 ·
Yea, back when I was in the restaurant business there was an Ecolab salesman who always said all there products were so safe you could drink them. I challenged him and he took some dish soap, and added it to a glass of water and drank a few good gulps. I always figured that guy must be really regular as he says he demonstrates it all the time. I passed on a sip! So yes there are some folks willing to drink most anything.
 
#30 ·
Sal, while that aquifer continues to provide high quality ground water, it, like most aquifers throughout the nation, has been slowly but surely been drawn down below historic levels. Additionally, the Hudson River, which I fished many years for shad, has taken a significant downturn. I wrote a magazine article about a guy up there they called the River Keeper and he provided me with lots of insight that most folks never seem to hear about. You may want to read this http://www.riverkeeper.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/RvK_How-Is-the-Water-2012.pdf

All the best,

Gary :cool:
 
#40 ·
Sal, while that aquifer continues to provide high quality ground water, it, like most aquifers throughout the nation, has been slowly but surely been drawn down below historic levels. Additionally, the Hudson River, which I fished many years for shad, has taken a significant downturn. I wrote a magazine article about a guy up there they called the River Keeper and he provided me with lots of insight that most folks never seem to hear about. You may want to read this http://www.riverkeeper.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/RvK_How-Is-the-Water-2012.pdf

All the best,

Gary :cool:
Actually the Hudson is MUCH better than it has been in likely over a hundred years. You can swim in it again, not like in the 50's to the 80's where the water was so polluted you could not go into the water. The River Keeper and Clearwater have done tremendous work to educate and lobby for new laws.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
Back in the late 60s towns on the upper Hudson dumped sewage directly into the Hudson. we had a ski lodge in Warrensburg which had a storm drain/sewer piping system that deposited directly into the Schroon River and hence to the Hudson. Even in the late 70s, you did not want to swim anywhere in the Hudson. It has improved since then, thanks to folks like Pete Seeger on the Clearwater and others who realized what a cesspool it was, not from only sewage but totally uncontrolled industrial waste. GE is still cleaning up the PCBs.
 
#34 ·
The sad part is that probably like most municipals, the money to remediate was already issued / granted, diverted to increased wages and benefits for municipal employees, lobbyists / cronies, etc, etc; and, now the taxpayers must eventually pay again and again for the 'privilege' of having efficient government.
Any good CPA will tell you that including increases for 'health care insurance' that the combined and 'pass-along' taxes that each 'average' person in the NE US now pays is approaching 60% of total income, probably higher on the left coast.
Time to 'bring back the king'?
 
#35 ·
I really did not want my first post on this forum to go this way but oh well.

I’ve been reading this post and I feel I have to respond. I grew up next to the Hudson and still live only a stone throw away. In the 50s you couldn’t swim in the water without getting sick as my uncle did when he was younger. In the 80s I was told it was illegal to swim there as it was too dirty. Back in the day the villages and cities dumped their raw sewage into the river with the ideal “Dissolution is the Solution” and as in combined sewers that is still the idea for some towns and cities such as Newburgh. I hate that idea but I also know to fix it costs more money than those villages, cities or towns have.

I have seen people bad mouth the developers, the municipalities and anyone and everyone they can here about what they do and being corrupt and not caring etc. I will agree that there are corrupt politicians, there are dishonest companies and there are greedy people, always have been and always will be. But don’t paint everyone with the same brush, they are in the minority. People say they use old technology and yes some do use sand filters, then chlorinate and then de-chlorinate before discharging, some use RBCs some use activated sludge digesters there are many options out there and new ones are coming online all the time. Let me ask you this though, are you going to let your taxes go up to pay a couple of million for new technology when your existing sewer treatment plant is meeting permit? Heres another one, which will get money faster, $2,000,000 for a park or $2,000,000 for sewer upgrades? People don’t care about their sewer as long as it goes down the drain and most don’t know if its to a sewer treatment plant or a septic in their own yard.

I just hate seeing everyone being labeled the bad guy. I work with companies and municipalities and even individuals under consent order from the NYDEC for their sewer treatment plants and variance other issues. I know whats involved and it almost always comes down to money. Let me tell you the infrastructure of the United States is crap. When where the sewer mains installed in your home town, how about the water mains? When was that, 40 years ago, 50, 100? What do you think is the life expectancy on those pipes? Heck there are some towns on the Hudson who still have wooden water mains. Yea you read that right water mains made out of wood. How old do you think those are?

People don’t like their taxes going up for things they can’t see. They can’t see underground pipes, they don’t see the sewer treatment plant. If its working then why does it need money? No one will raise taxes for those things unless they have no choice in the matter. The “it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality is alive and strong in the US. The problem is many things are already broken and are limping by and there is no money to fix them.

Sorry for the rant and wall of text, I just had to say it. By the way I really do like this site and am learning a lot eventually I even hope to at least learn what all those acronyms you guys with knowledge use.
 
#36 ·
Divi, your point is well taken. I agree that many/most areas are cleaner than they used to be, and the "the government" is not always bad. I think the issue at hand is that we have these huge municipal spillages several times a year, then we have small boaters getting boarded and fined because they don't have a zip tie on their dump valve.

P.S. Welcome aboard!
 
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