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Reattaching cabin top hand rails

2K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  mstern 
#1 ·
I removed my handrails from the cabin roof to refinish them. I wanted to remove and replace the bolts too, however, I just can't get the bolts out of the hand rails. In my many attempts to do so, I seem to have damaged them so that they cannot be reused. With a couple of exceptions, the threads are so damaged that they won't take a nut. I'm looking for any new suggestions about what to do next.

I wanted to just unscrew the bolts out, but there is so much excess glue and crap in there, that I cannot access the tops of the bolts (for the most part). I've tried using a forstner bit to clear out the glue and junk, but it won't get it all. I tried one of those "remove any stripped screw head" bits to try and get them out, and that didn't work either. There's just too much glue residue to get to the heads. If I had to leave the old bolts in, I would have to repair the threads. I had the yard run a die over the ends of the bolts to try and revive the threads, but that had very limited success.

I'm trying to avoid using the Yard for the work, as they have estimated it will take 8 man hours (at $90/hour) to reattach them. It might be less if I just use new rails, but that ain't cheap either. I've priced new rails out at about $70 each for teak, and about $125each for PVC. And that's just for the material. I'm not sure how much the labor would be.

Any tips, tricks, suggestions?

thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Compared to the yard labour, buying new ones and installing them yourself seems a 'no brainer' to me. Good chance you'll do damage to the old rails even if you do manage to get the old bolts out, and if even one won't budge the rail's kind of unusable.

Buy new ones, get access to a drill press to drill some countersunk holes with your Forstners, and a plug cutter to cover it up later if you're going to through-bolt them.
 
#3 ·
If the choice is to purchase new rails for $140.00, or drive yourself nuts ( no pun intended) trying to get the old bolts out, I'd spend the Money and get it over with, and go sailing.

You can then work on the old hand rails at your leisure, replace the bolts, varnish and have a spare set or sell them and get some of your $140. back.

How are the handrails attached? Through bolts from the deck to the liner below? is the deck cored? how are you planning on bedding the rails? While they're off, I'd consider potting the holes with epoxy. Most of my leaks came from the handrails. Once I took out the wet core and potted with epoxy, the leaks disappeared.

See mainsails tutorial here :

Sealing Deck Penetrations to Prevent Core Rot Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

Good luck.
 
#8 ·
There was absolutely no evidence of any water intrusion at any of the bolt holes. I was very pleasantly surprised. And if it were just a question of buying new rails, I'd probably do just what you suggest. But I don't have a drill press, and I question my ability to properly measure and space for the holes on the new rails; in short, I'd probably need professional assistance. That's why I'm trying so hard to be able to use what I have.

On a positive note, I just spoke with the yard manager who offered to personally assist me in trying to get the threads on the existing bolts fixed. He's bringing his tool and die set to the boat and we're going to give it another shot.
 
#9 ·
This is one of the jobs pretty high on my priority list as well. My rails are bolted through to identical rails on the inside and they are both deeply countersunk. I'd like to avoid ruining the inner rails(mahogany) and replace the exterior rails (teak) but doing it without doing damage is going to be a challenge. I hope you can get the bolts re-threaded but if not, maybe you can try to drill down with a small bit and carefully clean out the countersink to the top of the old bolt and then cut the cabin side flush with the bottom of the rail. If you can then set the rail in a vice (between blocks of wood), maybe you can carefully drive the old bolt out with a drift pin. The key to doing this type thing is getting the countersunk hole really clean so the wood doesn't split out(making a real mess) when driving the bolt out. Sometimes you can dig out stuff from the countersink with a thin chisel or knife to get to the original bore and then be able to just replace the plug later. As you say, there's usually some stubborn stuff in those holes.
 
#10 ·
Seriously, I did it 2 seasons ago. Heat the bolts, screw them back out, throw them out and replace with new ones. It's a PITA, but the one I got impatient with is the only one that fractured and I had to repair. The bolts will have too much tooling on them to be worth retreading. New ones all the way around cost something like 25 bucks.
 
#11 ·
If my next (and final) attempt to get the threads right doesn't work, I'm gonna buy or borrow a heat gun and give it a try. I already split one of the rails by trying to force a bolt out (gorilla glue rules), so I ain't trying that again. I've tried to clean out the countersinks with chisel, screwdriver and forstner bit; not happening.

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I'll let you know what happens.
 
#13 ·
I had much the same problem with the rails on my old Windrose. I used a nail set/punch tool and was able to push them through. You might try using a padded vice to keep the wood from splitting.
 
#15 ·
I probably would have tried a Forstner bit as well but they are hard to keep steady/centered. My next step would probably be a small burr on a drill or Dremel tool to grind out the crud. Surprised you could not get the counterbores clean with a small (like 1/8") chisel. That usually works to chip away the stuff adhered to the sides of the bore with some careful tapping. Getting the counterbores clean is the only way unless you just drill the heads off and then punch them out. The heads are what get stuck and the shaft of the bolts usually will move with a drift pin and bit of persuasion.
 
#16 ·
Heat, man. Heat! I used a small drill bit to get down to the bolt head, then heated the epoxy or whatever was in there with a heat gun on high until it started to smell and bubble, cleaned it out as well by digging as I could, then made sure it was hot again and backed the bolts out from the underside with some vicegrips until they were through enough I could put the vicegrips on the top, reheating as needed. Once you get them hot, they come out relatively easy. The one that cracked I tried to brute force as I was getting tired and hot. Teak or similar wood doesn't like brute force.
 
#19 ·
For those of you who have been waiting anxiously to find out what happened, you can breathe easy now. The rails are back on. After a couple of bad attempts to get together with the yard manager who had offered to help me personally back at the beginning of July, I finally met up with him. I expected that he would fix the threads on the existing bolts, but he wound up removing them completely. I have no idea how he did it; I left the rails (with the bolts in) with him. Forty five minutes later, I got a call that the rails "were ready". I didn't know what that meant until I went back to the marina the next day to pick them up and found that the bolts had been removed. I immediately went to the hardware store and bought new bolts and nuts. My wife helped me put them on yesterday. It was hot and humid, and it took us about an hour and a half, but it's done! I just have to bung the holes now. The yard manager included a packet of appropriately-sized bungs for me, no charge.
 
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