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Downsizing/Rightsizing

4K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  aa3jy 
#1 ·
We have put our Beneteau 400 on the market. We bought her with the intention to go long term cruising and now that we've deferred that dream to at least 5 years out, we're finding the 40 footer is more boat than we want to manage for Chesapeake Bay weekending and daysailing.

In finding a replacement, we'd like to get into something a bit more performance-oriented and modern than the Lippincott 30 that preceded our Beneteau. A boat with a PHRF of lower than 150 would be nice, but maybe a dream in wanting a cruising-equipped boat. A walk-through/sugar scoop stern is an absolute must as it makes swimming and dinghy boarding immensely easier with a child aboard. A head at the aft end of the salon is not a must-have, but a very strong preference.

We're willing to look at boats from 28-36 feet and to spend about $30K. The lower end of that size range is attractive because I find smaller boats more fun to sail, easier to singlehand, and less expensive to own. Our price point could get us a newer and/or better equipped boat at that size. On the other hand, the mid-30s size range is attractive because boats that size would be more comfortable for gunkholing, more stable for heavier air, and have better storage accommodations for a family of 3. A 36 footer for $30K would certainly be older, probably lack amenities like a walk-through transom, and probably have some deferred maintenance issues to address.

We have plenty of time to look around as we're not buying anything until our boat sells, but wanted to see what thoughts others have about downsizing in general and any recommendations of specific boats to put on our short list?
 
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#2 ·
The budget and the requirement for a walk-through transom may be a problem. Most boats with them are newer and going to above your budget. Catalina was one of the earliest adapters of that stern, so that may be a possibility. A Catalina 30 MK3, Catalina 34 MK1.5 or early 320 might come close to your budget. A friend in my club has a Beneteau First 30 (80s vintage) that has a removable panel in the stern that would meet your budget and give you the open stern. A bit short on space below however.
 
#3 ·
This boat is a few hours north of you but the price may be worth the drive. Looks like they're trying to move her quick before their new boat gets there. At $35K she's about $10K below market.

On the plus side she looks to be in good shape, has the walk thru transom, has a new main, only 700 hours on the diesel and for a 30 footer has a huge interior.

On the down side she's mostly stock (few upgrades) and has the original Raymarine instrument package which is due for replacement. You'd be shipping her or waiting until spring to sail her home.

Hell if you picked her up for $30K and paid for shipping you'd still be ahead of the game.

1995 Catalina 30 Mark III

 
#5 ·
Looks like a good find! We're not going to buy anything until our current boat is gone - so I'd either have to hope for a quick sale for ours or hope that one stays on the market a while.

I don't consider that Raymarine package due for replacement. It appears to work - and that's good enough for me! The NavMan chartplotter is another story and I don't love the way it's cut right into the exterior bulkhead. Beyond that I'd prioritize adding a bimini, a steering wheel wrap, and air conditioning.
 
#6 ·
C&C 30 MKII
Aft Cabin
Standing headroom throughout
Fold out transom
Decent sized head
Good performance
Most of the goodies you are used to in your boat, just smaller :)

Thinking about it, you might consider looking for a trade. A 70K boat and a 30K boat will generate 10K in broker fees....or you could just poke around and maybe find someone looking to move up...

40ft is a tad too big for me, otherwise you might be on the receiving end of an offer for my 30MKII :)
 
#7 · (Edited)
. . . . we're finding the 40 footer is more boat than we want to manage for Chesapeake Bay weekending and daysailing.
I guess at the end of it all it's a matter of personal choice. I would only downsize my boat if it became physically too challenging for me to sail her and given the presence of electric winches and other strength-converting enhancements, I can't see that happening any time soon.

Are you downsizing because of personal physical limitations or do you just want a smaller cabin to sleep in? :confused:. I guess there are things like smaller marina slips, less expensive haul-outs and that sort of thing and ultimately I suppose one's personal financial condition may play a part but I'm really interested to know why one would sacrifice the comfort/space of a 40-footer. What actual factors are considered in such a decision?

It would be a really tough call for me to make. I can't think of anything about my present boat that would bug me enough to want to downsize her. I suspect when I find a real need to downsize, I'll probably not buy another sailboat.
 
#8 ·
I think I understand where 4arch is coming from. We are planning to buy a cruising boat, a true built for high latitudes boat. The boat is picked out, the funds ready, the project plan in full swing but until we're really ready to leave the Chesapeake (responsibilities here), it seems silly to me to keep a boat that's built for offshore in the bay gunkholing. Not that much of that would happen with a six foot keel. Why pay the extra marina fees and all that a larger, heavier, more expensive boat costs when it isn't going to be used as intended?

Which is why we buy boats to use as we sail now, not later, so in the meantime our C30 is perfect for us and we continue to sail and develop our skills and not put out a huge amount of dollars to do so.
 
#9 ·
We owned a 40 footer for over a decade, with a partner family. It worked out very well for all of us. When the partnership dissolved (our doing.. career change/relocation) neither couple wanted that much boat for themselves so we sold it. We've both gone down to mid-30 feet and quite happy there. Reduced long term costs (the higher costs of the 40 footer were shared), and easier handling yet adequate accommodation for us individually as couples was the main motivation.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I feel your pain. The 44 footer that we borrowed this summer showed us that it's more boat than we need. We did not have problems controlling it, but sailing it was more work than necessary. And we did not even have to maintain or pay for slipping it - that was done by the owners! And the 6.5' draft was limiting. Still, it was a great experience and we had a lot of fun. But for weekending and daysailing, we have more fun on a smaller boat.

For one-week cruises, which is in the near future for us, our "sweet spot" is between our current boat and 44'...probably low 30s.

Nevertheless, I remember when you bought this boat and I was thinking "wow!" I'm really sorry to hear that it's not working out as you hoped.
 
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#11 ·
Nevertheless, I remember when you bought this boat and I was thinking "wow!" I'm really sorry to hear that it's not working out as you hoped.
We bought the Beneteau with the intention to go on a 1+ year sabbatical cruise south. We would have left last month if that plan had come to fruition. Happily, we had a baby along the way to that plan. Sailing with her quickly made us understand we're not the kind of people cut out to cruise with a young child. We may try again when she's at least 5, but as time goes on, the idea of cruising for more than 3 weeks at a time is losing its appeal.

For better and worse, we had to walk this far down that road to realize it wasn't working for us. Even if we do decide to try again in the future, for the time being we'd like to put the additional carrying costs of the 40 footer toward things like chartering, land-based travel, and building our daughter's college fund.

As for the Beneteau, there's absolutely nothing wrong with her and we'd definitely be keeping her if our priorities weren't shifting (and we may keep her if we don't fetch a decent sale price). She'd be a great boat for anyone wanting to head south or to cruise the bay in greater comfort. As for us, a boat that's fun to daysail, comfortable to stay aboard a couple of Saturday nights a month, and maybe spend a week aboard once a season should do us just fine for now.
 
#12 ·
A walk-through/sugar scoop stern is an absolute must as it makes swimming and dinghy boarding immensely easier with a child aboard.
You may be ruling out a lot of possible boats with this absolute requirement. For what it's worth, our son has been swimming from and boarding our flat transom boat with a drop-down ladder for four seasons beginning from the age of 3 (he's now 6). It's never been an issue. A stable dinghy is more important, in my opinion, when making the transfer to and from anything.

 
#13 ·
Plenty of people have raised their kids sailing in boats too old or too small to have sugar scoop transoms.. As far as sailing with kids goes I think the most awkward stage is the toddler stage.. not yet very stable on land, never mind a moving platform. Babies tend to sleep a lot, all you need is a secure berth for that.

Kids that 'grow up' on the boat and sailing will never have to be indoctrinated at a later age, don't feel the 'fear' of heeling over and are often comfortable aboard even in testy conditions. I don't think our son (or our granddaughter) realized that ALL kids didn't sail all the time until they went to school.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
...Kids that 'grow up' on the boat and sailing will never have to be indoctrinated at a later age, don't feel the 'fear' of heeling over and are often comfortable aboard even in testy conditions. I don't think our son (or our granddaughter) realized that ALL kids didn't sail all the time until they went to school.
The choice of how to raise one's kids is a very personal one. There is no one right answer, and no use trying to convince someone to one philosophy or another.

As for me, my kids liked playing with friends and doing camp and sports activities over their summer vacation. My wife and I decided that we weren't going to pull them away from that so we could go sailing over the summer. My son was no good at baseball, but wanted to continue playing. His games were every Saturday (and some weeknights), and I wanted to be there for him, even though he rode the bench most of the time. I was genuinely afraid that if I had a boat I'd be trying to convince him to quit so we could go sailing during my precious little spare time. I didn't want that. After a couple years he decided, on his own, to quit baseball. I started shopping for boats literally the next day.

The idea of the cruising family is a nice dream, and it works for some, but I have no regrets about doing what was right for my family. YMMV
 
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#18 ·
Don't know about your budget but maybe after you sell the 40' and if the good Lord smiles you can take a look at. Pacific sea craft 31 or a 34. I had a 34 and it was easy to board even though a double ender canoe stern. She was very easy to single. Her draft was quite moderate so getting into shoal places was not hard and with her underbody if you screwed up it wasn't the end of the world. Best of all you need not give up your dream of blue water. They are very capable little boats. It was quite comfy for one-two week stretches. Met folks who live aboard with a daughter.
Over the last two years I've learn to single my current 46'. Still need someone to catch lines if docking in a slip but underway with a little fore thought not that hard. Was very scary at first so would practice "singling" with the bride aboard. Rule was she could critique but not touch. Have powered winches but only really a blessing for raising the main. Otherwise not really necessary. Find biggest help when single handed is the AP. Especially helpful is the autotack function. May actually be less expensive ( given your current boats value may not fall much) to love the one you have and re up in future when plans are firmer.
Any decision is the right one as long has you and your loved ones keep sailing.
Best wishes
 
#19 ·
Buy the boat that meets your current/ future 5 year sailing needs. We usually go offshore to Long Isalnd something I probably would not feel as comfortable doing with Most 28-33 foot boats. After just returning from our 2 week southern Chesapeake vacation with NE wind at 25 plus most days, our boat was fine.

For when we retire in a few years the 44 Mason is perfect. Easily managed by two experienced sailors and room to live in with weight to handle heavier wind.

We know you and Sharon will be happy with whatever boat you purchase and M will get to grow up loving the water with you. Lot to be said about seeing families together on weekends without the electronic pull this generation seems to require.
 
#21 ·
We hope as our daughter grows up to be able to maintain a balance that allows us to sail and participate in marina/yacht club life while still pursuing her own interests outside of sailing. I don't think we can be the kind of parents who sacrifice every single weekend to a kid's sport or organized activity but also wouldn't be the type of parents who demanded every weekend between April and October be spent on the boat, particularly if our daughter develops a real passion for something other than sailing. Of course, if she turns out to absolutely hate sailing or to get horrendously seasick with just a placid daysail we'll have some further reconsideration to do. I think it all being so up in the air is a major reason downsizing is so appealing. Working back to the point where we can use our 40 footer to its full potential of coastal cruising is such a big question mark right now.
 
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