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post #11 of 20 Old 08-28-2006
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Alien-, SD, et all,

Boat US is a great organization that has a strong lobby group. I do not doubt it is very much like your AOPA. I have been a member a long, long time. They do not just support "real estate" but many other causes that boaters need representation for. Membership is cheap and they are worth being a part of.

As far as your thoughts on real estate, you are quite right in all respects. In fact, at one of the marinas we were at, they would have sold it off a long time ago if the city had changed the ordinance or had been made a good offer.

As for your concerns for the dissapearing real estate, well, I have a number of thoughts. First and foremost, let me say I agree with you that is a terrible shame that what once was countless miles of undisturbed islands and shorline is now a builders paradise for condos, huge houses, and hotels that rival the Ritz. It is a terrible thing. Sadder yet, believe it or not, most of the homes in South Florida are not inhabitated but a few months (and sometimes just weeks) of the year. On the block we lived on, only three houses had full-time residents. We never knew who half our neighbors were. They were always trying to get new renters in there. Kinda tough place to raise kids. And, keep in mind, these are fairly (to very) expensive houses (as I am sure you would gather from my previous thread).

The changing demographics is a sign for the times I am afraid. The baby-boomers are retiring. THey have money. They want a warmer climate and pretty views. They want all year golf courses, ocean views, nice restaurants, plush condos or hotels. Thus, the developers respond (and have over responded, but that is another conversation). The State of Florida, for all of its negatives, has also tried to step in some and buy land and dedicate it to preserves so that the whole state does not get turned into a concrete parkinglot. But the state could never buy enough land to stop what is inevitable: people over-populating the earth.

What you are seeing now is a brief glimpse of the future, and not neccessarily a good one. The shorelines will dissapear. The condos will rise. And the natural habitats of the earth will be dissected into small picture frames and snap shots of State owned land and billioaire donations. Along with this "progress", we will lose more and more coral reefs, coutless habitats of fish and 'land-based' wildlife, and much of the world as you and I know it.

Maybe now, for a brief moment, people will understand why my wife and I try and wok so hard to take our kids cruising. Maybe you will understand why I am such an advocate of boating and exploring and making the plunge - even at the risk of serious financial reprocussions: IT IS ALL DISSAPEARING. Your father's and grandfather's planet is no longer here. I think the housing bubble is past and the development will slow a bit for a while... but it will all come back again. How long do you have to wait? How long can you? How important is it to you?

THose are the questions we inevitably must ask ourselves.
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-28-2006
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I couldn't resist posting this again. I need to read it once in a while just to keep things in perspective.

"To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsman, who play with their boats at sea - ''cruising'', it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about. ''I''ve always wanted to sail to the South Seas, but I can''t afford it.'' What these men can''t afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of ''security''. And in the worship of security. We fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and some form of working activity that yields a sense of accomplishment. That''s all - in a material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, and playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.
"The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.
"Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?" - Sterling Hayden: Wanderer
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-29-2006 Thread Starter
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Steve, C-DAD

First off the quot by Sterling Hayden is a lot to think about, as is C-dad's summation of the times we live in. It sounds like I need to join Boat US, put Sterling's quot on the wall and start rowing down the back canals with a sign saying " Yachtsman in seach of free dock space will mow lawns!!"

Thanks for your wisdom, I will continue to post as I learn more about sea estate and it's value. And hopefully some of the liveaboards folks will weigh in as to the reasons why they seem to be slowly pushed out.
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post #14 of 20 Old 08-29-2006
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Part of the reason that Liveaboards are slowly being pushed out are financial. A small sailboat presents very little in the way of a tax base....large condo complexes provide the city/town/county much more direct income than does a marina in the same location.

Part of it is aesthetic, some of the people who own the shoreline real estate don't like having cruising and liveaboard boats, which are usually under greater budget constraint than megayatchs, in their locales. Let's face it, a boat rigged for cruising or liveaboard usually has a lot more stuff on it, and isn't the neat, sleek, super-affluent appearing yatch that they want to be seeing.

Part of is is probably jealousy—they wish they had the guts to cut the ties to the land and their materialistic ways and go off on a sailboat, but they're too cowardly to do so, and they punish those who have the courage to do so.


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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #15 of 20 Old 08-30-2006 Thread Starter
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Thanks Sailindog,

That all makes perfect sense, but frustrating. I feel like there condo's and marina's actually should be syngeristic as long as boats are only moored and maintenance is done at a boat yard. But that doesn't seem to be the way of things. Oh well........
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-09-2011
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For the people interested we have a 44 ft sailboat and are presently paying 400us month, on a monthly basis at Sunrise blv marina in Freeport Bahamas that has 24hr guards and cameras. Water is 7us for a whole days use, no matter haowmuch and electricity is not so bad, don't actually rememeber. It would be cheaper if on a yearly basis and they are negociable. Nex to it there is a shipyard that can haul out up to 65ft, but as always no good mechanics or anything else.
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-09-2011
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Paid something like $600 for our mooring equipment set in a municipal harbor (Milwaukee). Anyone can set mooring equipment, but, there is limited space. So essentially we are paying for squatting rights. Will probably be able to sell it for about the same when we leave.

But, no dinghy storage. No facilities. Not even a very good place to launch the dinghy.

I'm seriously thinking of naming my boat 'Parsimony'.
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post #18 of 20 Old 02-09-2011
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Wow old thread. Wonder now that we are full tilt into downturn what Sailingdog and cruisingdad think of today.

George Paiva
"estopa" - [est'opa] is portuguese for Oakum.
1986 Oday 222 #686
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post #19 of 20 Old 02-09-2011
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The greater threat is fuel prices

Powerboats outnumber sailboats by some huge factor. Let's say 10:1 but it may even be higher. When I moved into my new marina last fall the owner joked that at least we'd be drinking at the tiki bar, otherwise he wouldn't make anything off us. When I asked what he meant he explained his marina makes most of its money off things other than slips: fuel, repairs, parts, etc. Sailors he said usually do most of their own repair work and don't buy any fuel. A big sport fisherman probably burns more diesel idling at the dock than I'll burn in a season.

If gas prices really do hit $5/gallon on the street (predicted by 2012), diesel at the dock will hit $6.50-$7.00. The powerboat industry is already on it's knees. At $7/gallon boats won't leave the dock or will be hauled and blocked. No fuel sales and no repair work means marinas will go out of business. Remember how many boats were parked in '08?

How bad is it? I really wonder if my marina will survive a down year; and at the boat show a marina on the Chesapeake offered us a month free stay if we would give them a try.

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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau

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post #20 of 20 Old 02-09-2011
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The only condo slips that make sense to me are those that are attached to a real land condo project. Since there are usually more land condos than slips, you may have a more marketable package to sell the two together. Same with some condos that sell garages separately.

As for the thread creep on marinas not liking sailboats, I'm waiting to find one that is honest, competent and reliable. I don't actually want to do most of the work I do, I've just learned that most mechanics will cause one problem for every one they are hired to fix. It's by far, the most frustrating experience with marine life for me.

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