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  #1  
Old 08-26-2006
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Dockage,Slips,Marinas,Moorings

Hello All,

Would it be possible to start a forum to begin listing costs for rental and sales of long term boat placement.

I am a novice but it seems that boat slips cost more than boats and houses in many cases. (At least in Florida)

So many of you have vital information about location, condition, service, costs, et.al. about where you keep your boat. Could be a most valuble resource for us all.

Is there an advantge to buying a slip as an investment?

Thank you,
A
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Old 08-26-2006
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Most people don't buy their slips or moorings AFAIK.

My slip costs me about $2500 for the months of April-October. November-March will cost me about $1500 or so. The boat is 28' long.

BTW, don't necessarily think buying a slip is a good investment, unless you are buying the land that the slip is adjacent to as well.
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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-26-2006 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 08-26-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
BTW, don't necessarily think buying a slip is a good investment, unless you are buying the land that the slip is adjacent to as well.
I agree completely. I really am kinda nervous with what seems to be happening in so many areas with regard to slips, anchorages and boat repair facilities. In our area, marinas and storage/boat yards seem to be closing and turning into condos at an alarming rate. The little town I live in is planning to turn the anchorage into a mooring field, ostensibly in an attempt to control the derelict vessel problem. (I believe in reality they want to control more than that.) Liveaboard slips are few and far between and they are becoming more expensive than the rate of inflation would seem to justify.
I don't think I would ever buy a slip to keep my boat unless it was attached to a piece of real estate. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't make sense financially in the market place. I am still amazed at how quickly home and land prices have risen since I've been in Fl. It just goes against my nature to invest in something so intangible as a chunck of water.
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Old 08-26-2006
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If you want a slip at a marina, in certain areas it is going to be the only way to go. If this trend continues the costs will continue to soar. I would call that a good investment. I agree with knothead that it goes agaist one's nature to buy space on water, but that's the way it is. You snooze you lose. Welcome to the 21st century.
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Old 08-27-2006
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I thought the idea of buying water in a bottle was pretty crazy a few years ago. Now I buy it with regularity, sometimes from a drink machine How times change...
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Old 08-27-2006
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If they continue to go up in value, if buyers are plentiful, if you can afford to pay cash for it, and you can sell it for more than you paid for it...

...it might be a good investment.
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Old 08-27-2006
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Despite what everybody, including myself, thought about buying condo slips, those who bought them in Maryland 10-15 years ago have relaly made out well.

Jeff
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Old 08-28-2006
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Thoughts on Marinas and housing - FL and TX

I am no expert for the whole country but know Florida quite well, and a bit of Texas. Possibly the two extremes?

On the Bad side:

Florida. Here is what you can expect, on average, with costs higher in Ft Lauderdale and Key West and lower further north. Liveaboard: 12-13/foot per month (this if from the tip of your bowsprit/anchor to the back of your dink, incidentally). Plus 50 per person, plus electricity. These rates are good if you sign a one year contract, and in some cases pay up front. Transient is more. No contract is more. Some will not even talk to you unless you pay cash up front for the year.

Sound rediculous? Yep. But guess what... you will be shopping all around to even find a slip at all. People are paying it. Liveaboards marinas are dissapearing. Where else are you going to put your boat???? The citys are really changing the rules on "free anchorages" and putting up mooring balls with considerable fees and time/stay restrictions. It makes them money. It "cleans up" the anchorage for the tourists. It caters to transients ($$). It vastly drives up the costs of slipping at a marina.

We ended up buying a house off the ICW because it was going to be cheaper to have a house (ON THE WATER!!) than it was to rent an apartment and rent a slip. Of course, the housing market has subsequently become rediculous, and that may no longer be the case.

However, we did come VERY near to buying a slip. The asking price at the time was $150000. There was a CAM fee of somewhere b/t $150-$350/month. Roll that out over 20 years or so and the cost of buying the slip was not that much more than renting the slip. That is why they were selling. Still, we did not buy it. We could not stomach buying four sticks jetting out of the water and a piece of land that would always (hopefully) be wet. Now, we understand that if you can buy the slips at all, they are closer to 250-350k. Oops. Oh well. Going back, I still would not buy it.

On the positive side:

1) Texas. We went down many months back (during what Texas considered the rediculous craze) and found very nice slips (not falling apart pieces of junk) for sale for $20k-$25k. WOW! The locals said that was absurd and could not believe anyone would even consdier buying them. I had no comment. The marinas are very nice and very cheap and very protected. Houses on the water with gulf access are unbelievably inexpensive (proportionally). The real estate agent even told me they would negotiate those absurd prices. Again, I had no comment. Now, Texas is not Florida. It is not the gateway to the Bahamas and if you have not sailed there, the water is not very pretty. However, if you are looking for a jump-off point and inexpensive place to stay... it is very affordable. I think the marina we looked at (where Sea Lake Yachts sells out of) was like $6/foot, with access to shower, gym, etc. Don't hold me to that too hard as it has been a little while, but you get the picture.

2) Florida. If the bubble has not popped, it is sure deflating quickly (regardless of what you read in the papers). It looks grim. Hope you don't own any real estate down there!! Slips are coming up and available behind those condos that were marinas. House owners that are in way over their head are reaching out to anyone that can take some strain off of them. You might just find you can park your boat behind a house in a nice, protected canal or in a condo marina for less than what you would have paid for just the liveaboard marina a year or so ago (and, somewhat even today). As the condos are setting empty (entire condo complexes) with no buyers in sight and no owner not wanting to sell - all kinds of deals are coming available. I spoke to a condo owner about a month ago who said that if I will rent his brand new (luxury), never been rented or lived in, condo for a year (at 1250/month!!!!!!!! WOW), he would find me a slip out back for free!!!!!!

My, hasn't the world changed. Truth is, slips and places to put boats will continue to dissapear... but with the dynamics of the market today, you might just be better off now than before the housing craze. That is, unless you own a condo in South Florida. For those of you that do, sorry. Let the bank have it back because you are not going to sell it to another greedy sucker.
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Cruising Dad,

Well written and informative. Which leads me to pose the question, how is the disappearance of available long term dockage going to affect the nautical industry as a whole? I as a novice have done some research and I agree with you that the East Coast condo, hotels, restaurants, and homes are quickly eating up available space. How is this good for the market as a whole? Has anyone sailed the ICW lately. Does it cost as much as a hotel room to moor a boat for the night? Where does the government fit in all this? And what is the problem with liveaboards? Are liveaboards looked as the misfits, of low economic status, as polluters? Is it a loss of property tax that the cites are worried about? Why give transits a higher priority?

With ďsea estateĒ(docks, slips, mooring) in the range from 80K to over 400K it appears that the sailing community risks becoming the realm of the wealthy only? As a pilot I know that AOPA (Aircraft Owners Pilots Association) is one of the largest consumer associations in the U.S. As such AOPA has considerable influence in protecting the right to airspace, closing of government built airports, and often prevents the FAA from making rules that try to force out private pilots. Is there an association in the sailing community to lobby for the protection of sea estate? Letís face it, if the interests of the sailing community are not protected sailing as we know it will be beyond the financial capacity of many of us.

It seems that the very things that make the idea of sailing a wonderful way of life or adventure are the elements that prevent those affected from stepping forward to protect their interests such as: freedom from the rat race, solitude and slower less stressful lifestyle. I alone do not possess the power to question the U.S. government to account for the addition of restricted airspace but my joining AOPA does combine my interest with thousands of others to say no, or ask why, or negotiate to protect what was once equally available to everyone and finally to prevent the encroachment of commercial interests over that of individuals.

Brokers what are you doing to increase and preserve this valuable resource? Power boats of course can be stacked and therefore are not nearly as threatened by the economic skyrocketing of sea estate? Perhaps the number of sailboats is such that brokers and sail boat manufactures donít care.

As Cruising Dad said we can go to Texas to find a reasonable slip. But how is it just that condos, hotels, and restaurants, etc have become more important than individuals rights to access a national resource? Supply and demand of course has a place, but damn when is it enough? How many of you remember miles of beach and palm fronds? Now we are lucky to find a place in the one city parking lot at a cost of $7.00 to get any access to the beach and large portions of the river.

I am surprised to find that the sea estate will more than likely cost more than my boat, or a house for that matter. Please if I am reading this incorrectly let me know. If this valuable resource and way of life is to become the domain of only the wealthy because we ignore whatís happening around us, then shame on us.

I do appreciate the advice to seek out slips in someoneís backyard, but isnít that a sign of the future if greedy real estate developers go unchecked. And I donít advocate that real estate is bad, but why should the water access only belong to the few? Compromise should be the order of the day and those of you making your living from the marine industry should lead the way? Additionally boat owners should start looking at the specs of the 150K patch of water + amenities and then look at your 100K boat and ask what wrong with this picture? Then ask the broker the same question?

My point is that this is a problem that can be prevented. The South East coast doesnít have to turn into an Aspen; there should be enough room for everyone.

There are many experienced, talented, intelligent sailors out there who must have some ideas. What do you think?????/

Respectfully,
Adrian
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Old 08-28-2006
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BoatUS and some other organizations are working on trying to preserve the right to have access to waterfront property, and to help preserve marine-related businesses, that are in danger of being pushed out of existence by the higher real estate prices and development.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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