Tragedy on Lake Texoma - Page 2 - SailNet Community

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  #11  
Old 09-04-2006
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I have to agree with Knothead here. Unless you want to be known as a self rigtheous sailor who never takes risks or does something wrong ( good luck fella's) you should let the families of these people grieve and stop sounding like anyone that does something you don't like is wrong. In this case dead wrong.
Look at those boats and the rigs pulling them. There guys are pros. Someone made a mistake. This board is beginning to get way to self righteous.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2006
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I was there

I was on Lake Texoma over the weekend. We motored right past the Nashville Catz boat in our sailboat. It was lying stern down in shallow water near shore and there were police boats around it as they worked to haul it onshore. The word on the lake was that the accident as due to severe steering problems on Flash Gordon as the sped from marina to marina on a poker run.

There were other go fast boats around us, even after the tragedy. With boats that fast, it could as easily been our sailboat that was struck as we motored at four knots. While the drivers of these boats may have skill, speed on the water has its risks, and no one can foresee a sudden mechanical failure at speed. I have to question the judgment of people who travel at these high speeds on crowded lakes on holiday weekends. For instance, there are also nearly invisible wakeboarders and swimmers in the water all over the place. Its not always easy to see that small head bobbing 200 ft away from the ski boat.

Our thoughts go out to the grieving families of these boaters, but we hope there is a lesson learned here.

Q
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2006
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The flashgordon had TWIN TURBINE ENGINES OUT OF A UH-1 HELICOPTER AT 960HP EACH.

The problem as I see it, is that it was not "sudden mechanical failure" it has been reported that flashgordon had problems approaching the gas dock due to steering problems at the previous stop. He then had steering problems getting away from that same dock due to steering problems. I know he was the promoter of he event. I know he had a vested interest. I know that there is no prize money for finishing "first". That being the case,


a)why did he continue?
b)how come there were NO sailboaters entered?

Simple, it is understood that this event is for the gofast boys and their toys.

I do have empathy for the families, but in my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for him to continue the "non-race".

Q,
You know what that lake is like on holiday weekends, you know the amount of adult beverage consumption on oh, say, north island.... what the hell were these people thinking?
I'm not against gofast boats, infact, I've got dozens of pics of them on Sat. morning. I doubt that there was much booze consumed by the serious participants, but how many imbibed boaters were there on the lake Saturday?
I'll wager quite a few.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Let's see now...anyone with the money and the macho is allowed to just walk up and buy these things and put them on the water, right?

Yep, rich and dumb and macho. I'm just glad they only killed each other, instead of casual bystanders. No sympathy here.
yes, just like any kid can walk in a motorcycle dealer and buy a 200 mph street bike for abour $15,000 or person with enough money can walk in a Lamborghini showroom and drive out with a 220 mph car.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2006
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Originally Posted by administrator
yes, just like any kid can walk in a motorcycle dealer and buy a 200 mph street bike for abour $15,000 or person with enough money can walk in a Lamborghini showroom and drive out with a 220 mph car.
I'd like to point out that there is a major difference. The person going in and getting the crotch rocket or the Lamborghini probably has a driver's license, and probably had some education regarding driving. Whether they have any common sense is a different story...but there should be a base level of knowledge, at least enough that they were able to obtain a license in most cases. This is not the case with boats. There is no such requirement for any minimal education standard or licensing for an adult to operate a boat, regardless of how powerful in most states. This may be changing, but at least in the states I am familiar with, there are no current requirements..

Granted, there will the the occassional whack job, who goes and drives without any education or training in the operation of a motor vehicle, and who isn't licensed...but in the majority of cases, the operator has had some training or education towards driving or operating a motor vehicle.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2006
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It is very hard, without knowing the exact circumstances, to generalise, judge and condemn the attitude of power boat owners and skippers. Nevertheless, isnít it strange thatthe sailing community expresses repeatedly so many complaints about the aggressiveness of high speed vessels? There should be some truth in all these stories and unfortunately everybody has more than once experienced similar situations.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
I'd like to point out that there is a major difference. The person going in and getting the crotch rocket or the Lamborghini probably has a driver's license, and probably had some education regarding driving. Whether they have any common sense is a different story...but there should be a base level of knowledge, at least enough that they were able to obtain a license in most cases. This is not the case with boats. There is no such requirement for any minimal education standard or licensing for an adult to operate a boat, regardless of how powerful in most states. This may be changing, but at least in the states I am familiar with, there are no current requirements..

Granted, there will the the occassional whack job, who goes and drives without any education or training in the operation of a motor vehicle, and who isn't licensed...but in the majority of cases, the operator has had some training or education towards driving or operating a motor vehicle.
What would you like to see, Licensing for boaters?
I've got news for you, virtually no one upon recieving their first drivers license knows how to drive. A good driver matures with time and experience.
Personally, I think we are losing too many freedoms as it is.
If you can tell me that you have always been 100% prepared and educated before you took chances in you life, then I yeild. However, I don't think you can.
There are a lot of people in this world who, if asked, would say that it's crazy to set sail in a little sailboat and cross an ocean. It's something they just don't understand. To you, it's a natural and even reletively safe. Tell me how many good sailors have lost their lives. How much money has the government spent rescuing sailors who have underestimated the conditions, their vessel or their own abilities?
How would you like to be told that it's "stupid" "reckless" and that you can't live that lifestyle anymore because the majority doesn't think you should.
I kinda think that your tune would change.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2006
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Question looking down the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead
What would you like to see, Licensing for boaters?
I've got news for you, virtually no one upon recieving their first drivers license knows how to drive. A good driver matures with time and experience.
Personally, I think we are losing too many freedoms as it is.
If you can tell me that you have always been 100% prepared and educated before you took chances in you life, then I yeild. However, I don't think you can.
...
Hey Knothead,

Can you imagine what it would be like on the roads if those new drivers who don't know how to drive also didn't know the rules of the road ? At least the basic driving test catches a lot of those problems.

There is no substitute for a formal education and there is no substitute for experience. Sometimes we need some education up front so we don't kill ourselves or someone else before we can get experience. After all, that is why we have rules of the road such as yield to the right on our highways.

When it comes to high speed vehicles or vessels, when two operators on a 90 degree collision course see each other often it is too late to prevent. It is a fatal problem with fast cars, boats, and even airplanes on intersecting runways.

About 10 years ago Maryland started requiring a basic boating safety course for every boat operator born after about 1980. That way at least there is hope that the operators out there will have more background eventually through attrition of the older boaters. Of course the there needs to be real substance to the course and other pressures through insurance requirements and enforcement.
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Last edited by captnnero; 09-05-2006 at 02:07 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2006
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Tommyt-
"you should let the families of these people grieve " How on earth do you conclude that anything that anyone says or does here, in any way affects whether those families can be, will be, or are greiving? Or perhaps, celibrating? Yes, I know folks who would say "Thank God Uncle Bob finally killed himself without talking anyone else with him!"

"and stop sounding like anyone that does something you don't like is wrong."
Ah, turning two boats and multiple lives into a pile of dead trash IS wrong. It's not just what I consider wrong, it is what most societies and most humans consider wrong. It is wrong by all societal norms. No society accepts "Ooopsie!" as a good thing when a captain is saying it and there's a stiff price being paid.

"There guys are pros. Someone made a mistake." Actually, what you are looking at indicates they were not pros. Sure, it is possible that there was a mechanical failure and this was no one's fault. And if that's announced, I for one will accept it with the same heartless equanimity that I accept the apparent macho accident as being just another accident.

Even in basic defensive driving classes, and pilot training, and many other areas, you are taught that you have a perimeter, an impact zone, an action zone, and that as the "pilot" you must be aware of anything entering your zone--and take active steps to ensure you cannot impact it, or it you.

When you're moving at 100mph with no brakes, no shields, and you are within impact range of another missile moving at the same speed...You've already committed hubris simply by remaining in that exposed position without needing to be there. You're taking on more risk than is needed. Unless you're transferring vital goods between PT boats during a combat run, and these guys weren't. At 100mph you are crossing some 150 feet PER SECOND and that means if you are within 150 feet of something, all it takes is one BLINK and you've hit it. Two boats moving at that speed? That's right, you can hit each other head-on from opposite ends of a football field--in just a second.

I'm all for their freedom to go out and kill themselves, I just find it upsetting that they can also kill anyone else within sight, without restriction. So while we may debate licensing and freedoms...I won't mourn them until and unless I find out there's more here than has been reported. (As there often is.)

The price of their fuel for their afternoon run probably could have fed a thousand kids in the Sudan for a full year. Better to save the tears for the kids, who just happened to be born in the wrong place and time, than the folks who should have known better.
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2006
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I am new to sailing (pursuing both classroom and outdoor instruction) and was considering leasing a slip at Texoma since it is one of the largest and most topographically interesting lakes near the dfw metro area. I am reconsidering this option however, because of this and other similar stories involving Lake Texoma. In my opinion, if you can afford a boat like these, you should be able to afford a condo in Galveston, Corpus or the like to go with it--I would like to see them outlawed from Texas-area lakes or at a minimum their owners force to pay huge user fees for the inconvenience (harm) poised to others.
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