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Quick question. Some of you are familiar with my story. I am looking to buy a boat and have narrowed the search down to either a Catalina 27 or an Ericson 27. I am looking to be able to single-hand the boat, and I am also looking to make the sailing the least physically demanding as possible, as I am recovering from a bad case of Lyme disease.
Is it easier to single-hand a boat of this size with a tiller as opposed to a wheel? It seems as though it would be, as the wheel might make it harder to maneuver throughout the cockpit. But it also seems like a wheel would be less physically taxing to steer over the course of a few hours as opposed to a tiller. So while a tiller might make it easier to single hand the boat, it also might be more physically demanding than a wheel. Just wondering what other sailors think about this issue. Thanks for your help eveyone.
A wheel doesn't become necessary for mechanical advantage until the boat is somewhere around 38 feet, IMO.
All these smaller boats with big wheels taking up space...just trying to look "yachty".
With a wheel you have greater mechanical complexity and more unreliability, a huge waste of space in the cockpit, more expensive self steering setups, and you lose a lot of the feel of the boat and water.
Hate wheels. But I accept that they are needed on bigger heavier boats.
I prefer a tiller, strongly. I've been drawn to some especially nice boats, but rejected them due to a wheel.
With a tiller you always know at a glance where the rudder is. You can move around the cockpit and still handle the tiller, you are not stuck behind the wheel. Easy to reach other controls.
You can tie it off for a quick break. It is very easy and much cheaper to put a tiller pilot on it, and go hands free, than it would be to set up a wheel with auto pilot. Just balance your sails first, and the pilot will not be working hard in normal conditions.
When at anchor you can stand the tiller up and have the whole cockpit open for relaxing or stargazing and camping.
Tiller is my preference. Also Jamie Dunross. Good thing about tiller you know exactly the rudder position with glance out the tiller. Also, very simple and easy (and relatively inexpensive) to hook up a tiller arm for auto pilot steering, or a windvane if you like. Here is Jamie's rig: WINDPILOT - Videos
I think you would do better with a tiller. As you said, it would be easier to get around the cockpit. However, I would make having lines that run back to the cockpit a higher priority that the type of steering.
I've been aboard a lot of 27' to 30' boats, mainly Catalina's, that have been retrofitted with wheels. As has been acknowledged already, you lose a lot of cockpit space with a wheel, and their complexity means that you should be carrying a spare tiller regardless.
I've known sailors with retro-fitted wheels who've had to saw their tillers down during a wheel failure in order to fit it back on and avoid hitting the wheel station. They were lucky in that they, wisely, chose to keep a tiller onboard.
If your plan is to sail single-handed most of the time, then the choice is obvious. Tiller all the way.
Can see the point of the above posts: KISS. Have heard that for long hauls, however, (and what you call long may vary) wheels are less tiring and don't tend to leave you with one arm 6" longer than the other afterwards. Something to consider if you have possible joint issues.
Tiller gives you extremely important feedback as to your sail trim and balance. You feel it in your fingers long before it gets out of hand when wind pipes up. Tiller is simpler (less things to break), cheaper in every way, and makes you a better sailor. If you sail solo on long passages, it makes self steering much simpler and easier on the wind vane.
In reality, at least to me, it's a lot more comfortable steering with the wheel while single-handed sailing. I previously owned a Catalina 27 with tiller steering, and on a single handed five day trip down Chesapeake Bay to Cape Charles, I thought my left arm grew by at least two inches. Great wind conditions, some fast sailing, but I purchased a Tiller Tamer when I stopped in Cape Charles and it was the best investment I made on that boat. Sure saves lots of arm aches. The tiller tamer allows you to lock the tiller very precisely, thereby giving the helmsman a break once in a while.
Now I own a Morgan 33 Out Island and it was originally a tiller boat, but was converted to wheel steering. The wheel is relatively small, and the steering console is set off to the port side about 12 inches, which allows you to easily pass by the wheel without climbing over the lazerette seat. And, I installed a great helm seat behind the wheel, which makes it very comfortable for the helmsman to sit in comfort for 10 to 12 hours a day. Of course, you can lock the wheel in place with a set screw that is on a knurled knob, which is great when you want to eat lunch or just take a break.
I purchased the seat from West Marine when I first purchased the boat. The seat that came with it was one of those stiff-padded humps that has no back or arm supports and not at all comfortable. When I purchased the seat it was on sale for $269. Sure beats anything else I've seen on sailboats of this size.
Since it is going to be an absolute necessity for you to have a self steering gear of some sort, a tiller would be the better option. A tiller is much more efficient with a steering gear and less expensive.
You should not be hand steering your boat more than about 10% of the time with a good self steering gear, and probably much less.
Keeping this in mind, if you purchase a boat with an outboard rudder, you can build (or have built) a trim tab self steering gear for a fraction of the cost of a normal, production gear. It is also a MUCH more dependable, efficient and cheaper system to maintain than any commercially available self steering system.
I have a strong opinion. It's based on sailing with my wife of 37 years. She has significant medical issues which make using a tiller very difficult. She is, however, able to use a wheel. The wheel is very much easier to grip, and you can use your entire body to lean into it. The tiller just is too hard for her to use. I personally believe that the wheel gives plenty of touch in a boat that size (yes, I've sailed a lot on both systems). A wheel is less tiring. You can adapt an autopilot or wind steering system on a wheel. It's your choice, but the wheel is a clear winner for my needs.
If TP52 can get tiller steering, why shouldn't a boat about half the size not be able to have tiller steering.
My boat similar in size has a tiller. I can come up with more reasons for a tiller than a wheel frankly.
At the end of the day, like all things great and small, it is up to you.
One thing NOT mentioned, auto tiller pilots are 1/3 to 1/4 the price of wheel steering auto pilots in many cases. Of course this depends upon the disp of the boat, but as also noted, tillers are cheaper to work with.
For me tiller.
Bit of playing with mainsail trim to get the balance right and mine will happily sail with a 3/16 length of shock cord around the tiller to a cleat on each side of the boat, can sail for hours this way jst adjusting the sails.
When hand steering if the tiller starts pulling that is your first clue you need to trim the sails.
Also have a Simrad tiller pilot, in conjunction with my gps/plotter I usually let my boat drive itself back to the marina under power while I get everything stowed away and ready for docking, I sail solo so this is very handy.
Started looking into my next boat for some serious ocean cruising, tiller steering and outboard rudder are at the top of my list of wants.
FWIW I have a Ericson 27 with tiller AND Autohelm ST2000. I've never piloted a E27 with a wheel so I'm not qualified to comment on that. Regarding tillers, having the sails balanced helps offset the energy needed for the helm. I solo sail most of the time and thus rely on an autohelm a lot. Still gotta mix drinks, visit head, grab a bite while underway. My autohelm is very finicky and like grampa has good days and bad days.
If you are planning on long solo passages the tiller can get physically taxing depending on sea conditions, course, current, etc. I mix it up and run tiller from both sides, stand and use my legs and even my feet from time to time. I can access all areas of the cockpit while on the tiller. Also I can spin the E27 on a dime with the tiller. I once did a 360 in my slip (neighbour was out) and didn't hit any docks. Try to get time on a wheel and a tiller before you commit. Figure out your limitations. Good luck.
Tillers are definitely simpler and less expensive. On smaller boats I find they can be more fun, especially on a day sail.
On larger boats sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending on cockpit layout and angle of heel.
I prefer wheels in general. In my experience weather protection can be better, again depending on the cockpit layout.
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned, if you have a long trip down the ICW or similar waters, It's easier to be sitting behind a wheel, especially on an elevated seat, than to be off to the side of a tiller and sitting lower. I've done both, and constantly having to stand up and/or move from side to side to see what's around is tiring.
I have joint problems, probably like the op does, and wheels are much less painful due to less moving around and getting up and down. Even when I have to get up I don't have to stand up as far, and my knees really like that.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but that's one of the reasons I prefer multihulls. Danny, you might want to do some research in that regard, they all aren't megabucks.
While I think about it, it's probably not a good idea to use your email address as your forum name, the bots might get hold of it and spam you to death.
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned, if you have a long trip down the ICW or similar waters, It's easier to be sitting behind a wheel, especially on an elevated seat, than to be off to the side of a tiller and sitting lower. I've done both, and constantly having to stand up and/or move from side to side to see what's around is tiring.
I have joint problems, probably like the op does, and wheels are much less painful due to less moving around and getting up and down. Even when I have to get up I don't have to stand up as far, and my knees really like that.
If you do steer manually for long hours, a wheel is much more comfortable. Also gives you something to hang onto while standing in order to assist in balance.
I have a tiller and love it for all the reasons mentioned earlier, but my next sailboat will most likely have a wheel just because I love to stand behind it while close hauled, waves splashing over the bow, wind blowing hard....much easier when holding onto a wheel.
One thing that can be done to decrease the force required to move the tiller (other than proper boat balance), it to make the tiller longer. This will give a longer lever arm, and for a solo sailor give you access to more of the cockpit while keeping a hand on the end of the tiller. The trade-off would be needing to move the end of the tiller through a wider arc. That could be tiring, too.
Tiller's are awesome 'cause you can lean way back with your elbows on the coaming and your legs over the tiller, steering with your ankles. Give someone a wave as you pass them steering like this, you'll look massive chill
+1 for the mention of the tiller tamer, if you do go the tiller route. Mine lets me adjust the friction on it so it'll hold in place in a variety of conditions. That way instead of having to hold on to the tiller at all times you just set it and then occasionally make micro-adjustments as needed to keep course.
Tillers also take up a lot of room in the cockpit. Six people are pretty comfortable in the cockpit of my little boat, except that during tacks I have to push the tiller over into someone's stomach.
Done both. Preference is.... Preference. Wheel gives more mechanical advantage for when you need it, so may be better for you, medically. Tiller has other advantages. In the two boats you're looking at, it opens up the pit, but not in all. Some older designs the darn thing goes right down the middle of the pit, and is worse than a wheel for space. Basically, you have to choose, but depending on how much arm strength and how quickly you tire, wheel may be better unless you are going to rely on autopilot a lot.
Also done both. Tiller boats for about 25 years, wheel for the past 20. Prefer wheel. A wheel doesn't constrain--or strain--you as much and you can manage weather helm better if you are concerned about your strength and endurance. For long trips an electronically-controlled autopilot that is connected to your chartplotter is the way to go IMHO. A wind-powered self steering may be fine for open water, but the ability to push buttons and steer your boat in close quarters--or to dodge pots and buoys--is more relaxing and much less physically taxing. If you want to hand steer, you push "standby" and take over.
I'll concede that the ability to flip up a tiller and open the cockpit space is an advantage, though.
Here's the only photo I have that shows the offset of the helm to the port side, thereby allowing easy passage down the starboard side of the cockpit. Sure makes life a lot easier. Notice, the wheel is not at all large, but even when close hauled on a hard breeze, the torque at the wheel is minimal at best.
Don't think size need be a determinant in choosing wheel v tiller. The K and M 53 comes with a tiller.
Tiller definitely has better feel although now with direct drive it's pretty close on a wheel.
Have singled both. It much easier with a wheel. You can twist on some brake and walk away to do another chore. If boat starts to wander you can move the wheel a bit even with brake. Takes a short while to figure out how much brake to use.
With a tiller had a line lying across top on tiller running through a clutch with a lever. To "brake" closed clutch but is was black or white. Either totally off or on. To adjust took two hands but with wheel one hand.
When singling spend a lot of time in front of the wheel. With a tiller you're more stuck in place. Lousy when vision is blocked by sails. Lousy when you want to look at the slot.
All this assumes no autopilot. Now with the cost so low and reliability so high of either tiller pilots or wheel pilots wouldn't even be stressing about this decision.
Get the best boat. Stick a AP on it and have fun.
I sailed a Grampian 26 with a tiller for a little over a decade.
I had a wheel on my Catalina 309, and now I have a Catalina 28 with a wheel. On the 28, I'd be just as happy with a tiller.
On a boat in this size range, effort required to operate a tiller vs. a wheel is minimal. If I found a 27 foot boat that met all my other criteria, whether or not it had a wheel or a tiller would not be a deal breaker for me. I suppose I might have a slight preference for a tiller.
Many have mentioned improving their tiller with a tiller brake like the one from Davis. I had one on my 26 footer, and it was okay, but not great. The MUCH better solution is to get the tiller CLUTCH. Unlike the Davis which requires one hand on the tiller while the other hand cranks down the tension on the brake, the clutch is easily operated by the hand that's already on the tiller. I had a tiller clutch on my Precision 23, and just a flick of your pinky securely locks the tiller in place, freeing you up to adjust your sheets or apply you suntan lotion. They cost a little more than the Davis brake, but are way better.
I read your previous post about which boat to buy. I think you're making an excellent decision by getting a 27 footer. Best of luck.
PS..
A wheel does have an advantage when docking. With a tiller, your throttle and shift are located remotely from the tiller. My Catalina has the typical wheel binnacle with the throttle and shifter located at the top of the binnacle, allowing you to stand up for a good view while entering your slip, with the throttle and shift very readily at hand.
The advantage in docking usually goes to the tiller. The engine controls can be places conveniently enough with either tiller or wheel - not that boat builders have always done it right.
The typical tiller arrangement allows for far tighter turns than the typical wheel installation. Often enabling a boat to turn in about its own length. Below deck autopilots can be fitted to many tiller boats. Tillers are much simpler, have low maintenance costs, take up no cockpit room when not underway, allow extentions to be used, often allow the driver to be under the dodger, and definitely give a better feel for the sailing forces.
That said, I have a wheel, but almost never use it. It's a long walk back there. I spend more time polishing it than steering with it. When cruising the autopilot does *all* the steering. Recently the 2500 miles from the last departure channel buoy to the destination channel buoy was done on autopilot alone. Never touched the wheel. Never pushed the Standby button. All conditions from pounding to weather, dodging flotsam, to surfing. So maybe it doesn't really matter if it's a wheel or tiller.
The advantage in docking usually goes to the tiller. The engine controls can be places conveniently enough with either tiller or wheel - not that boat builders have always done it right.
The typical tiller arrangement allows for far tighter turns than the typical wheel installation. Often enabling a boat to turn in about its own length.
I suppose the engine controls issue depends on the installation, but with my Edson wheel/pedestal setup, I have to reach through the spokes for the throttle and shift levers. It's tolerable, but can be a nuisance when things get busy.
However, my boat was available with tiller standard. The rudder is in a well with fixed stops, so whether it is tiller or wheel controlled doesn't matter regarding tight turns. With a low aspect fin keel and spade rudder, I can make some pretty tight turns with my wheel-equipped model.
Also, my wheel has a very light touch and allows a good feel for conditions. That said, I've sailed on 5 different sized Island Packets anywhere from 2 to 10 days each and they all had wheels that felt like you were driving a 1950's pickup truck with manual steering. They were very tiring, especially in a seaway.
IMHO you ought to take any boat you are considering out for a trial sail and determine for yourself if you like the handling characteristics.
Was told to never, never reach through the wheel to get to the throttle. Was told if wheel swings ( AP malfunction, gust, inadvertent gybe, etc.) and your arm is inside you may be seriously injured. Told bad habit and if you do it sometimes you may do it the wrong time.
I really, really didn't need the lecture. I was referring to a docking/tight maneuvering situation where YOU are controlling the wheel while making frequent throttle/shift adjustments. I did mention reaching through as a negative for a wheel, but my wheel is large enough that reaching over it is awkward. I spend a lot of time dealing with drawbridges and routinely reach throught the spokes with no incidents in the 20 years I've had a wheel.
I always thought it was kinda dumb to mount the throttle and gear shift right behind the wheel where you cannot reach it without reaching through the spokes of the wheel. My aging A4 controls are mounted on the cockpit bulkhead where I can reach them easily and still control the wheel with the other hand. However, my sailing buddy has a Yanmar diesel in his boat and his controls on on the pedistal where you must reach through the wheel to access them - DUMB DESIGN!
Gary
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