Who makes Blue Water boat right from the start - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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I am sure Jeff H will have some good comments on this thread too, but here are my OPINIONS (just mine)...

Some boats really are built better for offshore sailing. THey have the right tankage, lots of handholds, are tighter (making moving around in seas easier), have fewer (and generally smaller and stronger hatches), and most of the gear is "oversized" compared to what we would call a coastal cruiser. There are many other things I will not go into.

All that being said, I would have no problem taking a properly equipped Catalina or Beneteau or Jeauneau offshore (and have done it many times). I know of one gentleman particulairly that has had his 36 to South America and circled the Statue of Liberty (with several stories of 20+ foot seas). Would I take it to Hawaii? Yes, but I would be pretty careful about weather windows, etc. I would prefer a Valiant or Mason or other good offshore boat.

I think it was Hello?? that said to buy the right boat for the right thing?? Very true. Many of us have said that many times. You really cannot make a Catalina into a Valiant, as it will always be stronger (plus it would be cost prohibitive). That DOES NOT MAKE A CATALINA A BAD BOAT... just better designed for island hopping. It has lots of room, lots of "airy" hatches, and is very comfortable down below. My only comment to that is most of the boats which are "offshore circumnavigators" never make it past the first marker... for reasons that are a whole other thread.

Big fat boats with wide beams and few handholds (I always add more) can be a real bruiser offshore... especailly in a breaking sea. I know this from experience. But when you get to the anchorage, and drop the hook, it sure is nice to have all that room!!

Thus, if you really are planning on circling the globe, don't try and make an island hopper into a circumnavigator. I will also say that if you are planning on primarily Island hopping, don't try and make a circumnavigator into a fat comfortable liveaboard!! (Just my opinion, I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone). Buy your boat for how you will use it 99% of the time.

If you want both, break out the checkbook and go buy a Nordhavn. Putting a sailing dinghy on the back so you can still call yourself a sailor!!

- CD
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post #12 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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I'm not saying a Catalina is a bluewater boat, but a lot of the problems, like the failing electronics, broken hatches, blocks and rudder failure could have been prevented by proper maintenance and preparation. It isn't that a Catalina couldn't make that voyage, but whether it was wise to do so, with such poor preparation and planning.

Generally, boats that are abandoned, are not abandoned because of any single thing, but a series of events that go wrong. Also, it does sound like the crew wasn't properly prepared for the conditions they'd face when offshore. The medical kit wasn't really appropriate for the conditions they faced.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 09-12-2006 at 06:19 PM.
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post #13 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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I second what you said Sailingdog. I will also say this:

I WOULD TAKE A CATALINA AROUND THE WORLD WITH THE PROPER CREW AND PREPARATION BEFORE I WOULD TAKE A VALIANT 50 AROUND THE WORLD WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN OFFSHORE OR DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
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post #14 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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From http://www.equipped.com/0698rescue.htm

Quote:
Jeff summed it up best for all of us when he said "This was the finest sailing I've ever experienced and some of the scenes were just beautiful!" Aimee's comment was "It's too bad the adults were worried. Jeff and I were having a great time!"
As I read it, there is nothing in the article that implies that a Catalina 36 is inherenlty a poor choice for a passage to Hawaii. It all comes down to the preparation of the boat and the crew.
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post #15 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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i would have turned around

If my boat was pristine and i had a crewmember as sick as that -i would have turned around. the leaking hatch, soaked below, broken steering .
this combination couldn't get much worse, and being so close to land i would heave turned around for that also.


my personal solution would have been to send the sick crew home by helicopter and sail the broken boat to the nearest harbor.

i believe that that boat could be taken on long passages if it were properly scrutinized. mant tartan 30's have made long voyages and my tartan 37 logged over 15k miles in 4 years.

There are of course real blue water boats such as my Amel which is an "A" rated e/c boat. 4 watertight bulkheads. dry below. we have sailed a number of times in 50+ knots and cooked a great dinner and never felt in distress or unable to take the boat off of autopilot. or even put on our foulies as we do not have to go out of the closed in hard dodger to make sail adjustments.

just a few comments off the top of my head.
Fair winds,
eric
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post #16 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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Cat...I have owned and loved 2 Catalinas and the CATALINA 36 IS INHERENTLY A BAD CHOICE FOR A PACIFIC PASSAGE. I know how they are constructed and you can't "inspect" your way to safety...you have to design it into the boat. Poorly constructed (for blue water) boats need luck...well designed boats need good skippers.
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post #17 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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they also had the wrong medical kit

the bigger offshore medical kit contains
Trimethobenzamide 200mg Suppositories (Tigan).
make sure you keep these in the reefer--the first time we pulled these out they were like vaseline--kind hard to install

it also has injectible form of scopalamine.
both of which should have stopped the vomiting.
eric
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post #18 of 62 Old 09-12-2006
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CB,
I agree, The Cat36 is a really good coastal cruiser, not a bluewater boat. tankage and fuel are just too small (for starters).
don't get me wrong, I really do like the Cat36 but its not going into the big blue pond for more than a week at a time.

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
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post #19 of 62 Old 09-13-2006
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As the owner of my second Cat 36 (divorce, long story) I must say that I absolutely LOVE my boat. It has cruised Mexico with the prior owner and I would take her there again, and of course, she's a great island hopping boat here in SoCal. However, much like a British sportscar which you should never drive outside the range of the towing company, I would NEVER take her across the Pacific. Could she make it? Of course. Have others done it? Sure. But being a boat maintenance and customizing nut, I have had the chance to take most of my boat apart at various times. The lack of backing plates, tank size, questionable tank mounting and extensive use of self-tapping screws among other areas would concern me if I was more than a few days offshore. I'm sure I could beef up the rigging, install backing plates, add tankage and some additional sail options which would help, but I still don't think that the overall robustness would be there. I would rather buy a Caliber 40LRC with 240 gals of fuel, watertight collision bulkheads, modified full keel, skeg-hung rudder, split rig, etc etc. The Cat 36 is about the best boat in it's class for what she is, IMO. But as nice as she is, I wouldn't run the Dakar rally in a Lexus, either.

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post #20 of 62 Old 09-13-2006
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seaworthiness rating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfesq
suffice it to say you that the seaworthiness of a boat for blue water purposes has been quantified. You can look that number up and find out if the boat has the right weight to length ratio to be safe in heavy seas.
Can anyone tell us where to look up and interpret this for any given boat?
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