Who makes Blue Water boat right from the start - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 62 Old 09-14-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCox
A little interesting research on the web turned up that there are two definitions of "simplex". ANSI (and the US Navy where I learned it) define it as I did earlier which is one way ONLY i.e., broadcast radio and television or the fire alarm box. ITU defines simplex as one way at a time which is the definition I used for half-duplex. No wonder some of us seem way off base.
I guess I wasn't as off-base as you thought.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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post #42 of 62 Old 09-14-2006
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The only reason I posted is that I hate it when technical terms get misused. It makes communication much more difficult and there are already enough difficulties with it already . However, if the standards organizations can't agree on the definitions I gues we'll all muddle through somehow.
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post #43 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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Don't get me started on the 'amps per hour' debacle.
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post #44 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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I've seen some coastal cruisers venture into blue water, a number of well-prepared boats have even gone on the Galveston to Vera Cruz regatta (650 mile race down the Gulf), but they were lucky.

s/v Paloma, Bristol 29.9, #141
Slipped in Bahia Marina, easy access to Corpus Christi Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.
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post #45 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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You know, I'm not sure our question was answered properly....
As simply as I can say it, after being at sea for 25 years as a Master Class 1, a blue water yacht is one that is designed and built to protect you from the elements.
Stability, Strength and Security are the primary concerns here. They all dilute down to heeling angles, weight, sail area, watertight divisions and reliability and /or redundancy of your systems. The most important word in safe passage, is "safe".
The gents who set off to Hawaii in their boat were, in retrospect, unprepared despite a year spent in planning. The time in planning doesn't mean anything if taxpayers have to pay to have you rescued! You may as well set out in a bathtub. The good news is they survived to write about (and learn from )their ordeal.

In my view, a blue water boat is one that meets the CE criteria, its one that Class Societies (Lloyds, DNV, etc) are prepared to certify for ocean passages.
Many factors contribute to making it "safe". All the ABYC wiring codes, Life Saving and Fire Fighting Appliances (LSFA) bilge pumping systems, fire systems, redunacy of systems, availabiliy of spares to name but a few.

I recently bought a 21 year old fibreglass pilothouse boat that is so well built, so well maintained and so heavy, solid under foot and "substantial" - A name we gave to our fat cat, - that I'm prepared to go anywhere in her, - other than ice regions.

Long range on engine alone, (2,000 miles) - Heaps of fresh water and huge freezer. Soild, reduced rig, - not as fast as Steve and Linda's Beuwolf, but comfortable and manageable by a single person - (should one be incapacated)
This is a blue water cruiser.
To misquote Neville, "But, that's just my opinion"
Buy well, be safe.
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post #46 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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Hey Raffles - welcome to SN dude. It's great to have another salt on board.

Great post.


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post #47 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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I'll admit i find Dr. Marchaj's "Seaworthiness, the Forgotten Factor" to be pretty compelling reading concerning "blue water" hull forms.

Basically IMHO, a blue water boat, as compared to a coastal or inshore boat is:

Long, skinny and deep
has a long keel or a moderate fin and skeg hung rudder
has narrow, longitudinal bunks, with leeboards/leecloths
a gimbaled centerline table
a seperate nav station
moderate to low freeboard (as compared to what's out there nowadays)
small and few hatches with no large fixed windows
a fairly low aspect ratio rig
Usually two sticks
heavy mast extrusions
heavier stays
throughbolted hardware
a lot of lockers
a lot of handholds
small cockpit with a bridge deck
small wheel

etc.
the basic idea being able to stand up to heavy weather without rapid motion, and quickly recover from a capsize (AVS of 150deg or better).

At Strictly Sail a couple of years ago, the wife really frosted a broker selling a nice 45'+ "cruiser" by pointing across the main cabin and saying "that's a long way to fall"
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post #48 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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Isn't "amps per hour" how you measure overkill in a heavy metal rock band while they're performing in concert?
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post #49 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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The small differences add up

Yes you can upgrade a coastal cruiser to handle blue water but it does not make it a bluewater boat, just capable of handling bluewater. My only experience of anything resembling bluewater was crossing the Gulf of Mexico in the Regatta al Sol in a Catalina 380.

Checking out the boat before hand I was impressed out how luxurious and spacious it looked down below and what nice looking wide open cockpit it had. This should be a good time i thought. The start of the race brought big winds that only increased. One boat was dismasted on the first day and another dropped out as well because of the conditions. Under way the wide open cockpit , which would have been nice at anchor with 8 friends on board enjoying cocktails, was not longer an asset but rather a pain in the @ss, literally. The only person comfortable was the one on the low side that was resting with his back against the cabin bulkhead with legs pointing aft. Everyone else but the helmsman was on the windward side with their legs extended to the leeward side. With a cockpit this wide your feet could barely make it across and your but was perched on the edge of the opposite bench. Your back made it nowhere near the back support so you had to sit/stand like this for hours on end. We later brought coolers into the cockpit to add places to brace against. Unless I was the lucky person on the low side or second luckier as helmsman, though not very comfortable there, I found myself most comfortable on the cockpit sole jammed up against a cooler.

The wide open spaces down below were a liability as well. The handholds were few and far between. When moving forward down below you would time the motion of the boat to swing monkey bar style towards the next handhold. Once when the boat made a sudden unexpected lurch and I missed the next hold and flew across the beam of the boat.

I had read previously about the differences in the designs of boats before this but this was a first hand lesson in the design advantages for specific purposes. I wish sailboats were as cheap as kayaks so I could have one of each kind for my different sailing needs.

Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
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post #50 of 62 Old 10-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul View Post
hey, I've got a 16 y. o. kid that thinks "50% chance of rain" means its going to rain in half the area...
sigh. so it could always be worse.
Um, it does.

Dan Goldberg

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