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Loner or belonger

13K views 106 replies 45 participants last post by  mstern 
#1 ·
Just wondering what sailing groups folks belong to or are more people bowling alone?
Also wondering why people belong to the groups they do and the level of involvement?
Are yacht clubs now just a way to get a mooring?
Is OCC just a way to have a friendly face in a new harbor?
Or CCA just to do a race?
Boat US just for insurance?

You get the idea.

Have a glorious festivus!!!!
 
#3 ·
Just wondering what sailing groups folks belong to or are more people bowling alone?
Also wondering why people belong to the groups they do and the level of involvement?
Are yacht clubs now just a way to get a mooring?
Is OCC just a way to have a friendly face in a new harbor?
Or CCA just to do a race?
Boat US just for insurance?

You get the idea.

Have a glorious festivus!!!!
Not sure what bowling has to do with boating, Out :p..

We belong to two 'yacht clubs' - both very low level 'un-hoity-toity' clubs. The first was our original local club where we lived before.. good facilities, very inexpensive moorage. Historically about 100 members and 60 or so boats (bigger now, it's grown a lot in the last decade) We've maintained associate member status since we've moved for nostalgic reasons mostly.

Squamish Yacht Club

The other is what is nowadays called a 'virtual' yacht club. The Gulf Yacht Club is a BC based association of cruising sailors now in its 50th year. This club is inexpensive to join - $100/year- and to qualify as a member you must have crossed Georgia Strait under sail, overnighted and returned at least once. We still have a few charter members living and participating. We have members scattered up and down the coast as well as some in WA state. Monthly meetings at the local Maritime Museum Sept thru June, and monthly rendezvous' on the water March through October. The club has no facilities, no obligations, no politics.

Gulf Yacht Club - Gulf Yacht Club, We are the friendliest sailing club in Vancouver , BC

Like many clubs we are aging.. and with such an aging group (at 60 we're among the youngest) it's very difficult to attract the younger set with children. I wonder if it can survive and/or rejuvenate itself in the next few years.
 
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#4 ·
Faster there was a book using the decline of bowling leagues as an example of the decline of true in person social organizations and groups.
Similarly the decline of deep religious sentiments in our holidays was what was being alluded to in the signature.

Wonder if forums now are trying to serve the social network function yacht clubs used to do.

I belonged to one yacht club in the past. It had a very strong youth program producing two gold metal Olympiads. In became uppified so we left along with many of the friends I met in that setting. I was invited to join another. It seemed membership was stick up your butt blue bloods and noveau riche wife swappers so we declined.
 
#6 ·
** snip }

I belonged to one yacht club in the past. It had a very strong youth program producing two gold metal Olympiads. In became uppified so we left along with many of the friends I met in that setting. I was invited to join another. It seemed membership was stick up your butt blue bloods and noveau riche wife swappers so we declined.
um.. does this said club.. check the color of your blood.. before the wife swapping??

..asking for a friend
 
#5 ·
Bowling Alone

Bowling Alone.

I had picked that book for a reading group I belonged to.. couple funny things about it. First was everyone told me it was the worse book picked.. ever. Then they would admit they never read it.. to the point they didn't even read 50 pages. And granted it was a big book and a lot to swallow.

The other thing, In the next year, not a month went by where someone didn't point out that the book was cited in another discussion.

I read something on a parallel plane that one of the biggest demise of congress was when Newt Gingrich (I am not saying this to be political) told congress they should go home and talk to their constituents and not each other. The result (un intended consequence) was the congress men were not going to church together... playing softball with each other.. hanging out at the same clubs

And becoming more partisan.

I think this is true everywhere used to be you were a member of the Kiwanis or the Lions Club and it didn't matter if you were a sailboat guy or motor boat guy, you were just working for a common goal and you could see the good in folks you might otherwise not have much to do with.

I would like to think forums do what outbound suggest, but I see people arguing.. but I hope they often find more common bonds than differences (cough coughPirateFlags cough)
 
#7 ·
My life experiences have always been outside the norm, whatever "normal" is. I work alone at home and prefer doing things on my own schedule, but I am very active in my yacht club and an active member of the Singlehanded Sailing Society; I am on a water polo team and a search and recovery dive team (well, we do dive solo); I'm a member of my county's community task force dealing with sea level rise; I also like to race with crew especially in our "party circuits" over the weekends, and I get together a few times a month with friends; occasionally I date, but the guys usually turn out a little too needy so they are soon sent packing. I'm surprised to not have heard about the Bowling Alone book. That looks like an interesting read, but frankly, I'm a bit surprised by its premise. Through Facebook, sailing forums, email, etc., I maintain connections these days around the world that were just not possible only a decade ago. Also, I rarely see people doing things by themselves, especially women, so maybe it's not that we're no longer joiners, but that the majority of people are becoming more and more sequestered within their own little packs whenever they have any spare time at all.
 
#9 ·
My life experiences have always been outside the norm, whatever "normal" is.

I work alone at home and prefer doing things on my own schedule, but I am very active in my yacht club and an active member of the Singlehanded Sailing Society; I am on a water polo team and a search and recovery dive team (well, we do dive solo); I'm a member of my county's community task force dealing with sea level rise; I also like to race with crew especially in our "party circuits" over the weekends, and I get together a few times a month with friends; occasionally I date, but the guys usually turn out a little too needy so they are soon sent packing. I'm surprised to not have heard about the Bowling Alone book. That looks like an interesting read, but frankly, I'm a bit surprised by its premise. Through Facebook, sailing forums, email, etc., I maintain connections these days around the world that were just not possible only a decade ago. Also, I rarely see people doing things by themselves, especially women, so maybe it's not that we're no longer joiners, but that the majority of people are becoming more and more sequestered within their own little packs whenever they have any spare time at all.
Bowling Alone is not that interesting.. well the facts are, but the reading is stat after stat.

I have worked in 'people' jobs most of my life. So when I get time off I am the opposite of you.. I don't want to go to any place I have to say hello.... (well not completely) and I sort of thing certain professions play on that. If you didn't work alone, maybe you wouldn't be as social, but I am sure you would still work for the various causes you believe in.

I think.. it take it you are implying.. that the word 'joiner' has taken on a different meaning. In the 50's if you wanted to talk about sailing, you had to join a sailing club.. there was no other forum. Much the same way if you wanted to play poker, you had co-workers over on Thursday night.. now you can get both from the internet.

I don't know about you but there are several internet people who are my friends.. perhaps more so than people I see in person...
 
#11 ·
My two cents....I'm a person who if not doing a sport isn't interested in watching it. I signed up for the forums because I needed information regarding sailing, etc., when I bought a boat. I've sold the boat, after a year, not that I wanted to. And, I backed off the forums. I'm back because I've got sailboat fever after crewing on a offshore one day trip, and I'm thinking of another sailboat. I might join a sailing club soon if I cannot get another boat. Of course the club has rental boats.

With regards to 'Loner or Belonger'...I'm 39 and I've spent sixteen years living abroad, and people get together regularly in other places to hangout and converse. Here social media has completely engulfed our society. Upon returning to the U.S. I see that people are driven to feel like they're 'having a blast', or something is wrong. People don't tend to just hangout any more. At least not from what I've seen (I could be wrong). That being said, the only thing to do 99% of the time while sailing is to hangout. Another issue is time. It seems that people have too much on their plate, and can only dedicate an hour or two to any given activity. So going for a 4-5 hr sail or club meetings is out of the question! And, one person I know compares sailboats to desert islands.

Another observation is it seems that we're tired of 'clubs' as these have hierarchical structures, which probably reminds people of work environments or high school. Clubs are like high school reunions. People are in contact with each other online constantly. So there's no need to catch up with anyone.
 
#12 ·
Unfortunately the stats are true. Across the board membership in formal social groups which are not virtual continues to decline. I look at this site nearly daily regardless of where I am. But it is a very different experience than hanging out at a yacht club, gun club, social club, civic group, or church.
I have some involvement in civic organizations but now most things are done via the net. A Go to Meeting gathering is a different beast than collecting in a room. Don't like what someone is posting just ignore. Very different when that person is in front of you physically.
Sailing is not virtual. In involves a great deal of delayed gratification. You need to put in time but have little control of how that time is spent. The joys and mishaps are in the real world and out of your control. Most of the skills cannot be effectively taught in a virtual world. Admittedly, the you tube video is usually running when I do most maintenance or repairs. However, this is a very different experience than having someone on your boat walking you through it. At some point the mastery is gained by an epiphany. Watch a new sailor work a boat to windward through a sea. Suddenly they anticipate the headers and lifts. They flow over the crests. They have a visceral understanding gained by being there.
Look at your kids. They are as passionate as we are about their diversions. But they are not open ended or unknown. They much more defined. Through the smartphone they pick a time, activity, and locale. Be it kite boarding, rock climbing, biking- whatever. Keel boat cruising is viewed as too open ended.
All those who are not liveaboards "go to the boat". Sometimes you sail. Sometimes you do maintenance. Sometimes you just hang out if it's blowing dogs off their chains. The yacht club was like that. Open ended and social if you wanted that. To my kids, at least, that has little appeal.
 
#31 ·
I am not sure what the problem is, or why the demise of formal social groups is unfortunate. It is what it is...

I am currently a member of a sailing club. I have been a member of the board, and have organized several cruises. I have dropped out of the club once in the last 8 years, and I am not planning to re-up this coming year either. My decision is based on what I get out of the club.

Through the club I have met some people that I really like, and hope that our friendship is not dependent on maintaining my membership. There are also some members that I find, er, difficult...

I joined the club to learn, and to offer to share what I know with members. Several of the "difficult" members have a "my way or the highway" approach on their vessels (which I am OK with) and ashore (which I am not OK with), and aboard other people's boats (which could be grounds for shortening a planned voyage). Many of the members of the club are not physically capable of handling themselves on a vessel, yet they still insist that they are capable, and I find that they become a liability. There are also members that I simply find that I don't like to be around.

I spend the winter out of the state where the club is based, and therefore do not have the opportunity to participate in the winter "learning" sessions, where members would pick a topic, and share what they know. In place of this, I read the forums because I am continually learning. Furthermore, I believe that my desire to share what I have learned is better channeled through teaching sailing (which I do year-round), and through SailNet. In SailNet, I can simply place the members that I prefer not to hang around on my "ignore list."

I suspect that the club will do fine without me, and that my sailing season will be fine either with, or without, the club.
 
#13 ·
Yacht clubs in my neighborhood are primarily bars with a diminishing membership of people who don't own or even like boats. Not that I'm opposed to bars.

We tend to build our own, that is, we've got friends who like to sail, fish, or hang out together on boats. Personally, I enjoy building a crew that likes to sail or offshore fish together. Single handing is fun for the solitude, but for me I'd go nuts after a bit, maybe bring along a soccer ball and give it a name or something.......
 
#14 ·
I belong to SSCA and OCC. I'm really not much of a people person but I get a lot out of SSCA and do enjoy OCC.

The only other "belonging" I engage in is the American Society of Naval Engineers and the Cosmos Club of Washington DC (which has reciprocity with NYYC interestingly enough) and the ARRL.

The nice thing about most activities associated with boating organizations is that when I've had enough of people I can go back to the boat.
 
#15 ·
I am introverted, but I recognize the decline of social capital in the U.S. and I've been forcing myself to get involved, in order to help preserve and improve the things I care about.

For example, I live in a neighborhood that owns a tiny beach and a pair of docks. Back in the 50's when the neighborhood was created, a "beach club" or civic association was created in order to administer and maintain that area. These days, no one wants to volunteer for the civic association duties or work to maintain the area. I volunteered for a spot on the board and was elected president. That was two years ago and I'm still doing it.
We organize the neighborhood Halloween party for children, the spring clean-up and BBQ, we ensure that the facilities are safe and well maintained.

At the same time, I've observed that small sailing clubs on the Chesapeake are aging out as Faster indicated. I don't want these clubs to die because they'll be bought by developers and converted into housing. This reduces public access to the water which places even more pressure on the sport of sailing.

I joined the West River Sailing Club. I was immediately contacted and asked to be on the board to represent the racer/cruisers. I did that for 2015 with good results and improvements. I was just promoted to "fleet captain" for 2016 and now I'm managing the whole racing scene for the club. I also volunteer my labor by helping renovate our aging docks, ramps and moorings.
I nag all of my friends and associates to come see what we offer and try to enlist them to join the club.

On top of all of this, I've organized nearly 80 solo and double-handed sailors into the Chesapeake Shorthanded Sailing Society or "CHESSS".

Now this is a funny club- I've organized 80 introverted people who sail alone, into a social club. That's got to be a valid definition of irony. Anyway, CHESSS focuses on safe, effective sailing techniques for handling boats alone or as a couple, as well as racing. In 2015, we've significantly boosted racing participation at events that were dying, which helps keep them going.
There appears to be a slow shift from expensive, fully crewed racing to solos, and husband-wife teams and pairs of sailing buddies.

I've done all of this as a guy who usually dislikes spending time around people, especially large groups. I may be changing my feelings about socialization. I've found the work to be very rewarding and people have been vocal and appreciative of my efforts.
 
#24 ·
On top of all of this, I've organized nearly 80 solo and double-handed sailors into the Chesapeake Shorthanded Sailing Society or "CHESSS".
I forgot about CHESSS. I'm a member of that, although I have yet to make a race or a meeting.

I have sailed with BubbleheadMD and would again.
 
#16 ·
Down to one club now. Just OCC. Story much like what others have posted. Due to highly emotionally charged nature of work requiring knowing more about people then you wouldn't generally care to know sailing was a relief. Social interactions non confrontational or emotionally charged and pleasant before setting out. Often if not on call or have family demands would sail east for a day then west for a day by myself. Going nowhere but to recharge and get centered dowsing on and off in the cockpit Due to family didn't happen often enough but when it did it was magic.
But the club was an instrument for good in the harbor limiting the shenanigans of the Harbor Master concerning moorings ( eventually he was fired). Kept the zoning board under some control. Involving kids who would otherwise have no involvement with the water sailing and given a lifelong appreciation of NE coastal heritage.
Worthwhile for me to put in the hours of physical labor maintaining the docks and buildings although I rarely did the social functions. A recent visit back to club is what got me thinking to start this thread. As the clubs die out or become just another venue to conduct business who will speak for the waterfront? Is life a bit less full as we bowl alone?
Folks go on this site for information. Yes there is a sense of community but all politics are local as Tip said. So with just virtual communities we may end up with virtual waterfronts.
 
#17 ·
Hey,

I'm a member of the Mt. Sinai Sailing Association (MSSA) and the Mt. Sinai Yacht Club (MSYC). The MSSA is made up of about 100 family's who are into, like REALLY into, sailing. Dues is very cheap, under $100 for the year. The club owns no property (not allowed to, according to the bylaws) and puts on lots and lots of events. We do racing, cruising, cookouts, and that sort of stuff. I joined the club to meet sailors and to try out racing. For a small group, they do a great job and it's a lot of fun. I recently joined the MSYC to take advantage of cheap winter storage (very cheap to store in the water, reasonable for out of water storage too). The MSYC has a nice clubhouse with a great bar and good restaurant too. The MSYC is probably 60-70% power boaters. The sailors are more laid back, the MSYC doesn't to any real racing or cruising.

Barry
 
#18 ·
I belong to a yacht club that has over 600 members, It is racing oriented and yes we do sail on a smallish lake but, we are out sailing, constantly. The people are awesome as everyone wants everyone else to well and we all share our "fast". We have a sailing center next door that host most of the area high school sailing teams. They also have sailing classes for kids starting at age 5. We also do adaptive sailing programs for those that are either physically or mentally challenged. On any given Thursday evening during the season we have 120 boats in 9 different fleets sailing two separate courses. We also have a branch called Apostle Islands Station that has races up on Lake Superior's Apostle Islands. People own and sail boats in both locations. Of course we aren't a bunch of blue bloods and we don't sail in salt but, I doubt you will find a bunch that has more passion for the sport. We just celebrated out 50th anniversary and we are going strong, growing the sport. Anyone, no experience necessary can come sit at the crew table, for free, and get a ride on a sailboat during a race. I think we are doing it right.

Our 50th Anniversary video.

This is what we look like on Thursdays form the air...
 

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#20 ·
If the yacht clubs and sailing clubs today want to stay relevant, then I believe they need to be more inclusive and sail/race more. Though the bar often generates the best bang for the buck for the revenue stream, it seems the days are gone when people sat around, chatting and drinking (too much). That atmosphere of old geezers making stupid, drunk comments is not conducive to keeping kids/young adults interested, and if you're not introducing the next generation to fun, outdoorsy things, then you might as well sell the club to the highest bidding developer. The old business model/traditions/stuck in the rut ways need to be banished from people's mindset. Alas, humans hate change, but if they don't, then the world is going to pass them by as they age. No way am I ever going to sit in a old folks' home reminiscing about the good old days. Tonight I'll think about the good old time I had today. Change is good. Change is inevitable.
 
#78 ·
Attracting new members: how not to do it

If the yacht clubs and sailing clubs today want to stay relevant, then I believe they need to be more inclusive and sail/race more. Though the bar often generates the best bang for the buck for the revenue stream, it seems the days are gone when people sat around, chatting and drinking (too much).
Here is an example of the snobby, exclusive attitude that gamayun and many other people find objectionable.

The club's policy statement starts off well ("We are delighted to welcome new members…. It is a strongly held belief here that New Members bring new ideas, new skills and new contacts on both the sailing and social sides. This Club is all about progress and improving on a successful past"), but the truth soon emerges.
You may have heard that the Club is exclusive, and to a degree it is in that anyone joining needs to be recommended on a personal basis by current members. However, the Club's friendly atmosphere is created by this six-degrees of separation, in that every new member proposed by another member is then introduced to their friends and fellow members at the Club. New members are encouraged to have an interest in the sea and nautical affairs, but there is no obligation to be a sailor.
In other words, it's all about 'who you know' rather than 'what you know' (or do). Sad.
 
#21 ·
I don't think it's enough to point a finger at a club and say "you're not introducing the next generation to sailing" or "insert other criticism here".

If you think the club is dying but has good potential, then you should join, get involved and lead the change you wish to see.
I do understand that you could find yourself against a brick wall of tone-deaf old folks who don't care about growing the club or saving the club. It's a calculated risk but it's better than doing nothing. It's real easy to sit in the cheap seats and lob criticism and it's one reason why nothing ever changes.

I'm 43 and I am among the youngest (but not *the* youngest) at my club. I'm very fortunate in that the older members of the club have been pretty open-minded about change, and any ideas that I put forth. Usually, I'll have a small kernel of an idea and they'll help me flesh it out into something that is really good.
The established members realize that membership has been on the decline, and the "self preservation gene" is kicking in. This means that they are listening and working to turn things around.
 
#22 ·
For clubs to stay relevant they need to drop the funny hats, the ridiculous costumes, the silly titles, and the word yacht from their name. For many people, the term yacht club conjures up images of an exclusive, pompous, annoying (and even sexist and racist) elite class of people. Most 20- and 30-somethings these days are about as opposite as you can get from the traditional yacht club member.

I have non-sailing friends who would laugh their a$$ off if I said Hey wanna come check out my Yacht Club? But, when I say, wanna come by my marina, go for a sail, have a few beers.... I always have takers.
 
#50 ·
I've been trying to craft a polite and reasoned response to this, but I suspect anything I say will fall on deaf ears. I'll make a half-hearted attempt anyway:

"Sailing" is very old. "Yachting" or sailing for recreation is actually a much younger activity, having its roots in working vessels racing each other on rare holidays. When recreational sailing and racing established itself as a regular sport or activity, it was mostly the wealthy that did it. Regular folks didn't take it up as a pastime until the explosion of the middle class and the availability of affordable, fiberglass boats.

Still, yacht clubs have a bit of history and tradition. Many of those traditions are linked to mariner's traditions and some are linked to national naval traditions. Sexism and racism is bad, but most of these traditions aren't racist or sexist. Now we have an opportunity to include other races and genders in observing these long standing traditions.

The term "yacht" does carry a major negative connotation in the U.S. but not elsewhere. It's simply a term for a recreational boat, even very small boats.

I'm guessing that you've never really been to a club as a guest or member. Even the most uptight clubs don't wear blazers and admiral's caps on a daily basis. Usually it's just the board members, and they wear them twice per year for the bi-annual meetings.
The rest of the time, people wear the same casual clothes as anyone else who goes sailing.

AYC, which is 130 years old had 3 decks before it burned. The top deck was the most formal, requiring a jacket for dinner. The second deck was more casual and the third deck was pretty much the "tiki bar". You could be as uptight or as casual as you like.

No, I don't ask people if they'd like to visit my "yacht club". I just call it the "club" and I sell it to them based on the cool fleet of shared boats that we have, the good racing, the low cost, and the great people that we have. Our beach cat, Flying Scot and Albacore sailors are highly skilled and fun as hell to be around.
We're not an elitist bunch of a$$holes laughing and rubbing hundred dollar bills all over ourselves while our trophy wives look on. (I borrowed that line from someone else, it was too funny not to)

Yeah, I wear a jacket and tie twice per year- once at Flag Raising Day, which is a party where we kick off the new season and once at the annual meeting where the board gives an account of itself to the members. I view the jacket and tie as an expression that I take my responsibility to you the member, seriously. I want to spend your annual dues in a responsible way and provide the best organized, most fun racing and sailing possible. It's also a link to some past traditions that weren't necessarily bad. Sorry if that makes me an elitist a$$hole that doesn't know how to have fun.

I'm familiar with the grumpy old white people that you are stereotyping, and guess what? They're aging out. Instead of letting clubs die out of spite, maybe it's time for younger people to step in and run them. Here's another "guess what?" for you- It *is* possible to have a fun, cool club that still honors some past traditions. "Fun" isn't necessarily contradictory to putting on a set of clean, unstained clothes, and shoes that aren't flip-flops once a year.
 
#23 ·
The sailing club options I have are basically yachtie dinner clubs now. Their calendars are full of activities...on land.

I don't want to barbecue. I can do that anywhere/anytime, even on my aft deck if I wish. I want to go sailing and hang out with sailors! People my age are not going to be enticed to join a supper/rotary/bridge club. Too many people with their umbilical cords attached to the dock waiting for the wind to be 5kn or less to head out.

Pair up an old salt with a young punk like me in a 30 knot breeze with a few feet of water rising into our sights. THEN we're talking about a good time hanging out and I can hear a bunch of awesome "this one time" stories! Otherwise what's the point?
 
#25 ·
This thread at times weaves close to asking "what personality type is better?" Well, I've seen nutters and happy people in both camps. I've seen folks worry themselves over which type they should be and which type others should be. I friends of both types and good folks I can't be around (the latter are all one way or the other).

Strike enough balance for your own comfort. The healthiest people are both and are comfortably introspective regarding their choices.

---

"Joining" can also be greatly affected by family involvement. If the family shares interests, that is a "group." If I were single again I would have more interest in joining.
 
#26 ·
I find the BC coast anchorages in winter have a good collection of floating communities, where we try to help one another out and celebrate each others victories . No need for anything as organized and controlling as a yacht club here. We have our own communities,and sense of community. Friends any where I go.
 
#28 · (Edited)
There are two themes here; sailing clubs and bowling alone.

I live in a small town in NY and I belong to a few community organizations and sit on a board or two from time to time, including my waterfront park board which includes some dock master duties. That said, I always find myself chafing at the bit and wishing I was free during those meetings.


But by and large I am a sociable loner. I need the freedom and flexibility of doing my own thing. As for sailing,or sailing clubs- same thing; I am sociable on the docks and stop in the marina office to chat and socialize and I will share a beer and some stories on a neighbor's boat..but I am really all about untying and going out, usually with my wife and/or grown up kids. I spent years waiting at the dock for my friends to show up, usually by 2 pm, and I had to move on from that and just go. I went through a similar thing with motorcycles, I would ride with friends or groups who could only get together after endless delays and then had drama and hardly went anywhere so I just quit the groups and ride alone, or with one or another good friend.

If I had to analyze it, I'd say with work and house work and everything else I just don't feel like wasting my time waiting for some organized group. The tide is running and it doesn't care, the wind is fickle around here...... I try to monitor the wind and tides and weather...when conditions are right, man......I just go. And I do like the solitude or intimacy of just going with one or two people, the quiet moments tacking across the bay with nothing much to say, or hear. So, ultimately I guess I'm a loner.
 
#29 ·
Sal- think you (and me ) are much like many sailors. Surprising how many sailors also ride. Some similarities-
Even on a poker run or group ride "you ride your own ride".
Even when buddy boating or a group cruise its the same.
Even on passage you take turns single handing the boat. Calling someone up when there's a need to go forward.
There is no question cruising with just the bride is best.

Still, give money to AMA. Wish there was a similar organization with no profit motives solely dedicated to sailors at large. We are a small enough group that divisions by area or type of sailing defuses the impact such a group would have.
 
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