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Paying to watch youtube cruising vids

57K views 282 replies 63 participants last post by  amwbox 
#1 ·
I'm curious to hear what I anticipate being very different opinions of who makes monetary contributions to Patreon accounts or makes other financial contributions to folks who post self documentaries of their cruising.

I watch and subscribe to several. Few are really all that well done, but I find them akin to a conversation in the cockpit. They're not all well rehearsed or organized, but I enjoy the story.

I estimate I follow an even split between kids just starting out and more salty folks that have been at this a while. Do you refuse to contribute? Do you contribute to them all? Do you pick which are the best and what's the criteria for that?

I'm not going to name names, but give some examples.

I love watching a vid series of a couple of young kids on an extended cruise. It totally brings me back to being their age, when I never chose to do what they have. I love it. The videography is pretty poor by anyone's standard, but I don't really care. Then they discovered Patreon and would like some contributions to help them continue what is arguably an unsustainable lifestyle. I'm conflicted. Would I send them a few bucks as comp for the entertainment? Maybe, but why just them, everyone is asking. On the other hand, while it's awesome that they had this adventure, there will come a time they will need to provide for their medical care, retirement, etc, and not live off others. IOW, are they selling a product or just holding out a cup on the street corner, in your opinion?

Others have documented years, if not decades, of cruising, with no information whatsoever on how they fund it. Are they independently wealthy? Did they inherit the money they are using to cruise full time? Or, in one case, as was revealed on the internet, they were a complete fraud that was appearing destitute, when they were a highly paid internet security consultant. Perhaps they do work and just don't reveal how.

Is this a new business model? What's your take?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Is this a new business model? What's your take?
Interesting question.

My take is that it is no different than a few decades after they invented movable type and they published books for "the masses."

"Holy Cow," old Mr. Gutenberg said, "now the masses are gonna start complaining that there's too much information out there and bug me with 'What book(s) should I read next?"

Some things never change.

You find what you like and then you read/follow it/them/she/he/it.

I've learned about new-to-me authors by picking up paperback books at my marina lending library; authors I never would have known about and have come to treasure.

Same thing with stuff on the internet. Find it, try it, come back to it or pass it by. No different than any other form of communication.

I use regular libraries, lending or swap libraries and buy both used and new books.

Seems it would be the same although most of us feel the FREE internet should remain that way. I've never contributed to any blog or YouTube. But I have personally spent countless hours preparing material on boating systems and share those links in response to recurring questions. I don't expect to get paid.
 
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#185 ·
Many thanks to Dylan for his perspective.

Seems it would be the same although most of us feel the FREE internet should remain that way.
There are a lot of things on the Internet that are not free, even neglecting the cost of connecting to the Internet. Amazon Prime, Netflix, newspapers behind paywalls.

Someone, somewhere has to pay - fees, advertising, or whatever the money comes from somewhere.

Still trying to get my head around whether asking for Patreon money is asking to be paid for a service, a gratuity or just a tin cup on the sidewalk.
The concept of patronage is centuries old. Patreon has merely thrown some technology at the situation and expanded the potential donors.
 
#4 ·
The investopedia link on youtube advertising revenue was interesting. Thanks.

I went to look at the number of views for the vids on the various subscriptions I have. They are highly variable, from only a few thousand to as many as 30,000. Still, they're not going to apparently translate to much money. I couldn't tell which did or did not have "monetization" turned on.

What I had never noticed before, however, was that the young kids have way more views. Even though their video production quality is often far inferior.
 
#6 ·
I've never really followed anyone on YouTube, so I haven't donated to anyone either.

But if I were going to donate I'd be more likely to donate to the kids than the oldsters. I've given money to my nephews and nieces to encourage them in their travels, but if my sisters want to go anywhere they have to fund that on their own.
 
#9 ·
I believe you can make a six figure income from ad revenue alone if you get to 200k subscribers. No cruisers are close to that as far as I can see. Mostly gamers.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
And even then it is still kind of sketchy. I know the gamers do sponsorship as well, and likely make for from that than YouTube. Of course Drake, and Nike both get sponsorship as well. That seems to be a good model, though most sailing sponsors seem to only be willing to give gear not cash like the gaming industry.

There was for a while the shoppers that were posting, but not sure if they are sill popular.
 
#8 ·
There seems to be a range from poorly filmed but fun to watch the enthusiasm, to well filmed. Some have good DIY info thrown in as well, while others concentrate on that. I do wish the YouTube was more open about how they pay. As it is now it is a mystery and you never know how much you are going to make. I know for instance Keep Turning Left has had issues with YouTube not really paying what they are supposed to. I think that is the big reason for the push to Patrion as it is the only way to get a consistent flow of income.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Sponsorships and Ad revenue make a ton of sense.

Still trying to get my head around whether asking for Patreon money is asking to be paid for a service, a gratuity or just a tin cup on the sidewalk.
I only follow one voyager (Nike, in White Spot Pirates), but I don't contribute to her Paetron account. As much as I like the videos (and as good as she looks in a bikini), I have no desire to fund her cruising dream. I never thought of the specific question you asked ("am I paying for entertainment?") before, but I have now and my answer doesn't change. I watch at least partly because they are free. If White Spot Pirates were somehow made a pay per view feature, I don't think it's worth paying for. Don't get me wrong; the videos are very well put together and the raw footage is professionally edited before being uploaded to youtube. Its just that there's lots of other things to look at and do that are already free or that I already pay for.

On another front, I think of these videographer cruisers seeking money as similar to the parent's groups that set up outside our local supermarket looking for "contributions" to send the town Little League team to a tournament in California. I always refused to contribute to those kinds of things. I think it's great that your kid's team is doing so well, and yes, it would be a terrific experience for them. But you don't ask me to chip in for your family's Disney World vacation, or your kid's college fund; don't ask me for this either. By the same token, I don't want to fund some cruiser's life-long dream to quit their job and sail to Tahiti. A great dream; so save your own money.
 
#13 ·
I'm curious to hear what I anticipate being very different opinions of who makes monetary contributions to Patreon accounts or makes other financial contributions to folks who post self documentaries of their cruising....
This is an interesting topic. I have contemplated donations thru Patreon but I don't really understand what it is - meaning - Patreon is making money on the videos, but not sure what is their cut, so am I really supporting a new industry or the people I am following? Probably both, but what is the ratio?
I do subscribe to dozens but only follow 3 very entertaining, informative and well made series and I don't mind naming them - Drake, Vagabond and Delos.
It seems the production of these videos take a lot of work to be done properly and for this reason I feel like contributing, after all it is entertaining specially in these long winter nights. After all, I pay for my TV that most of the time cannot get my attention on any of the 3 thousand channels....

But on the other hand, I simply don't feel comfortable with the idea of opening my credit card to future automatic withdraws...
 
#15 ·
Great question on how much your intended beneficiary actually gets. When you toss a bill in the hat of the performer, you know.

It's also becoming clearer to me that the youtube/patreon ask is more like the street performer mentioned above, than a beggar.

That also brings to mind the underlying point of who is asking. When I see the local kids from the music school playing on the sidewalk, I'm happy to help them get started. No way it will be their living, its a few extra bucks and they have a plan to be professional musicians, with real jobs one day. When I see someone down and out, that may also pull my heart strings.

If I see a performer who I think has plenty of money, I would save my contribution for someone else.

I think knowing the resources of the youtube producers is more important than I even originally thought. I see some of the channels paying to re-rig their boats, buy dingies, etc. It sure feels like there is already money there somehow. I don't want to be duped into thinking someone needs help, if they're really just trying to sell a product.
 
#16 ·
I see Patron as akin to paying cover at a bar for the band. It takes a lot of work to film and edit video well, and if the content is interesting then I think it's reasonable to reward to producer for my enjoyment. Much the way if I go see a band at a free venue I am going to toss a couple bucks in the jar.

My guess is that on a $/hr basis making the videos is at best a low level source of income. Much like when I sell my rigging work. I do it because I like to, any compensation just goes back into feeding the hobby.
 
#17 ·
Cover at a bar is different. You pay before you get in and I dare say that most of YouTube would never be viewed at all, if that were the case. The tip jar analogy is better, I think. So, how do you decide which you tip. Quality? Circumstance? Need? Or do you tip them all?

Indeed, on YouTube, it seems impractical to tip them all. It's like going to one hundred free venues per day.
 
#18 ·
I typically don't tip on YouTube. But I am at most an indifferent consumer. I just don't get the draw of watching other people's adventure videos. If there was a series of videos explaining how to do something in detail, like a few hours of how to perform some skill, with detail explanations, an in depth look at tool options, basically a few hour class on how to do something I will support it.
 
#20 ·
Studies from reputable research groups show (and you can Google this) that happier people give more, and that giving leads to greater feelings of happiness -- it's the classic feedback loop...very Pavlovian. Granted, what the OP asks about is not the traditional "charity" model, but it's the same concept. You approve of the recipient, they represent values you agree with, you want to help said recipient, and then you feel good when doing so. If you get something back in return, even if you were never promised anything for your donation, this just creates more positive reinforcement!

So, yes; it is a new business model and your conflict probably stems from not knowing whether you support their value systems or not. So you can ask yourself: do you want to see them continue, do you feel your money is going to be used for "good," do you like the people, do you want to see more of their videos, can you afford what you send them, do you think they are trying to scam you, etc. These are personal decisions. I don't think there's either a universal answer or a "right" answer.
 
#52 · (Edited)
You're making it too philosophical, Minne. There's nothing wrong with the ask. I think it's more about the expectation - on both sides of "the coin".

Generally, gama has it right:



So, it really boils down to how you, the viewer, see the product and the ask in the first place. Does the product require work - even if it's covering a hobby? In light of that, is the ask charity? You seem to lean toward the product being purely hobby and the ask being purely charity and seem strangely conflicted about it...

That is helpful. It's basic supply and demand....Do you pay them all?
Why would you ever pay them all? As you say, it's simple supply and demand. You don't buy everything you see. But there are others that might like what you don't. It doesn't have to be so philosophically monolithic. We're not talking "ethics" here (back to gama's post).

Despite that, even Wayne, who has made some GREAT videos that I've personally watched (e.g. - pulling radar cable through a mast, and taking care of your steering assembly, etc.), is a bit gun-shy about the ask...

I am still trying to figure out how to make this model pay. I think it can be done but just not sure how yet. I do not like to ask for money but it seems the only way at the moment.
Wayne - you shouldn't be dude. Your stuff is good. Ask.

Again, it's about the expectations of producer and viewer.

So let's first look at the product. Is it work or is it hobby? Well, it's both. The activity of cruising - the subject of the videos - is definitely hobby. But, unless you've actually made a video series, you have no idea how much work, equipment, cost, time, money, etc. it really takes. So you shouldn't really judge it so easily.

As Wayne said, from this standpoint, the ask makes perfect sense to try to cover some of that time and expense. After all, it's just the producer funding his own desire and vision to make the movie. If you as a viewer don't want to pay for the ticket - don't pay. No big deal. Then, depending on the box office figures, the filmmaker then makes the decision on whether to continue making movies or not. It's purely his/her call.

But why should some viewers' philosophy about whether or not it's "right" to sell tickets to what they might see as "only entertainment" matter to the producer? Again, there's no ethical dilemma here - it's just business.

For me, it doesn't matter at all if we ever have a single Patreon supporter. I'll do this video stuff anyway as a history for my kids and family. That's my own expectation. But I have no problem allowing interested viewers to enjoy the thrill of throwing a buck or two into the hat if they want to. Why the hell not? And I won't feel at all guilty about it if someone decides to. Again, it's just business...either way.

Now let's look at the ask. As has been said, if the producer's expectation is for the video series to fully fund his/her lifestyle...that may be quite a long shot. Some do seem to get a bit desperate for that in their pleas - and it gets a bit uncomfortable. It feels more like charity than business at that point.

On the other hand, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with that expectation of full funding if he/she can pull it off. Sure, it might make some old dudes bitter about "these kids begging for money" - but who cares? After all, look at a few of the more popular cruising content producers and how much they are making PER VIDEO via Patreon...then ask yourself how much they need the approval of old bitter dudes:

S/V Delos: $5,246
Sailing La Vagabond: $3,671
Wicked Salty: $911
White Spot Pirates: $807
Drake Paragon: $459

Now look at S/V Delos' YT channel. You'll see that they put up a couple of videos (or more) per month. Up to - and maybe more than $11K per month (not even counting the YT revenue itself) - for videos that are typically 30 minutes or so in duration. That's REAL demand my friend...from actual viewers...and it's a huge amount of money for the enjoyment and work that goes into supplying that demand. How can anyone be anything but jealous of success like that - both in the video work they do and the lifestyle they live? They freakin' rock. No question. So they'd be stupid NOT to ask.

Some dudes let this jealously make them bitter - and others let it compel them to make a better product. I tend to like the latter group a lot more than the former.

At the end of the day, it seems the key to big money is naked, drunk beautiful people in exotic locations. Who knew?

Wayne - can you find a girl in a bikini to help you wrench on stuff? There is a formula you know! Heh-heh.

So, again, back to the expectations. I see nothing wrong with anyone and everyone putting out a tip jar in front of their hard work (the videos) - even if it was derived from a hobby (cruising, extreme skiing, skydiving, parkour, music, whatever).

To try to make it some ethical conundrum is just silly. Pay or don't pay. Who gives a damn?
 
#22 ·
Several, including me, have purchased the famous butyl tape from Compass Marine. I don't think selling t-shirts or a product like butyl is the same as just asking for a patreon contribution. I'm not saying any are good or bad. I'm just curious how people deal with the vids that ask for money, albeit, often gently.
 
#23 ·
I'm conflicted. Would I send them a few bucks as comp for the entertainment? Maybe, but why just them, everyone is asking. On the other hand, while it's awesome that they had this adventure, there will come a time they will need to provide for their medical care, retirement, etc, and not live off others. IOW, are they selling a product or just holding out a cup on the street corner, in your opinion?

Others have documented years, if not decades, of cruising, with no information whatsoever on how they fund it. Are they independently wealthy? Did they inherit the money they are using to cruise full time? Or, in one case, as was revealed on the internet, they were a complete fraud that was appearing destitute, when they were a highly paid internet security consultant. Perhaps they do work and just don't reveal how.

Is this a new business model? What's your take?
The Patreon route is not a business model, per se, but a revenue stream that *could be* part of a business model.

1) amass followers
2) YT & other PPC revenue
3) ask for donations
4) if 2 & 3 become a fair percentage or amount:
a) Write a book and sell it
b) write movie/short script and sell that
c) sell other novelty items (t-shirts, hats, stickers)
5) If 4 works out, you have the street cred to sell anything you want and can make a living forever if you keep up the good work.

Most of the Patreon and YouTubers you'll find are in the first couple steps and most will never make it to 5 even though they may scrape together a few bucks for a crappy version of 4-a or b.

I would say if you subscribe to a series and you'd be sad to see it go if they can't afford to produce anymore, then give a few bucks. I doubt most people would feel that way. It's basically like a tip jar in the corner of a small coffee shop where some John Mayer wanna-be is going to town on a cheap guitar.

Unless they have millions of views on YT, they aren't making much of anything on ad revenue from the videos themselves. That's why they need something like Patreon (which takes a 5% cut off the top BTW).
 
#24 ·
...I would say if you subscribe to a series and you'd be sad to see it go if they can't afford to produce anymore, then give a few bucks......
That is helpful. It's basic supply and demand.

But, as I think about it, the supply is so vast, I would still have dozen more shows that are still on. In fact, I might feel this way about them all. Do you pay them all?
 
#25 ·
We watch and subscribe to several channels, but we haven't donated and I can't see that changing for us. We're saving up for our own cruising dream, which is our main priority.

While the videos are entertaining, I wouldn't be upset if they went away. Generally, I look at the kind of videos that we're talking about as products from someone's hobby. If they want to share it, fine, but I'm not going to pay them for their hobby nor would I ask someone else to kick in if it was mine.

The only exception we've made is a subscription to Off Center Harbor. That's kind of comparing apples to oranges, though, since the videos are extremely well-made, often they are educational/tutorials, and they are great boat porn during the off season.
 
#29 ·
I'm subscribed to 308 channels at the moment. I pretty much always have something interesting to watch. Even if none of my subscriptions have something up, I can surf through the millions of other channels and will always find something entertaining. That's what I love about Youtube. It's completely self serve and offers so much more than traditional television and cable.
 
#31 ·
I dream of sailing off on my own or with my son, or with a partner. However, I have little savings and am a single father living on a teacher's salary. I've definitely considered starting a GoFundMe or Patreon account when and if I buy a boat but am not as outgoing (read: confident) as some of those more popular on YouTube. If I were to receive ad income from YouTube (how does one qualify for that?) it would be a plus.

If I had expendable income I would probably donate to some of these sailors, although I would prefer to buy something like a t-shirt or sticker. I would offer something tangible in return were I ever to attempt fundraising.
 
#32 ·
I subscribe to a few cruising videos. I watch them over the winter while on the exercise bike to help me get through the winter or at least until my gal and I head out on a charter or two. I attempted to use Pateron to donate to one of the sites but, the attempt went strange. Was not sure if it went through. A few days later I get an email from Pateron that they had been hacked but, no credit card info was accessed. It still spooked me. So I donated via Paypal instead. It was a one time thing. I look at it as the same as buying a fellow sailor a few beers in a bar because you liked their entertaining yarns. If they keep on entertaining me I'll donate again.

Yes this is a new way of generating income. For decades the only way to get ones video out was too go through the hoops of Hollywood or the broadcast networks. You Tube and other channels allow anyone to make their own videos and have their own channel. Such videos are why I got rid of cable or broadcast TV in my house. I find more interesting and useful stuff on the Internet and You Tube.
I too produce videos but, they are mostly to augment my blog posts. I know it is a lot of work especially if you want to produce content on a regular schedule like some who I subscribe too. So I think it is worth it to throw a few bucks to those that provide the content I enjoy. As long as they keep the content coming.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Not sure if I would say "business model.."

I would say the new paradigm (which is a model.. I guess, but I see it as a new way of thinking). But I don't think it is a new, but a variation of one that existed.

I've always been kind of a socialist. I like that my tax money goes to public radio... and I also donate to them. I never donate to a certain show.. but would consider that.. I did give an extra donation to the local station when one of the "Car Talk" guys died in his memory.

The internet is my TV (I don't actually own a television) I spend lots of time in front of the computer

In the past there on a forum I used to participated on (until a couple people reminded me I was a jerk for pointing out some facts) For that site I did donate to them(I even donated in the name of others because I thought if a guy was making 3,000 posts a year, he should be donating). I would donate here if they had a structure. The typical structure is you have several levels like to be an 'Admiral' $30, 'Captain' $20 and 'Dinghy Master' $10.

One of the things that seems to be missing.. the understanding that people are providing content for the internet/youtube are not making tons of money. If you actually watch them closely you see that they raise money from other sources -- jobs or family wealth..

If the same vlog people were doing the videos for Outdoor Channel they wouldn't need Patreon.. they would probably be paid $50,000 a half hour video. As it is now, Google/Youtube make much more money off of me watching a 15 minute Vlog, than the people who actually make them. Now I understand that it isn't the audience's fault of this paradigm, nor is it the Vloggers.

Not only are they providing entertainment, they actually learning tools. I have come to terms I will never buy a cruising boat ---I am not talented enough to be constantly fixing it... nor do I want to spend my time doing that, I would prefer to watch someone else do it :laugh

I have donated to a couple vlogs.. either straight up, or buying a book... one guy, I just offered to buy a t-shirt if he would use it as a prize for a drawing of the next 27 subscribers

I would say that most everyone who has a vlog, never did so to make money.. They began as a way to have fun with videos; to show their friends or family what they were up to; or to record the learning process. In fact it seems most that have a patreon account do because : it seems the thing to do.

My favorite thing about these Vlogs is when you write to the people, you will likely get a response. I have had folks write me back from the public radio station, but it was a canned, politically correct memo

 
#34 ·
I long ago gave up on the TV after noting that while I paid the cable bill every month, I had not watched the darn thing in 6 months.

With regular TV pretty much aimed at people with tall foreheads and buck teeth, it was clearly a waste of time.

On YouTube, I find people actually DOING something, I enjoy that! I enjoy seeing what they are up to, the issues that they face, the challenges they overcome.

Right now I am fat dumb and happy in a good paying job but in my youth, I was out there on my own adventures (long distance backpacking) so I understand how it feels to have to subsist on a substandard diet due to money constraints or to struggle with gear that is falling apart while having no way to do anything about it.

Furthermore, I intend to be back out there doing it again and each of the YouTubers I watch helps me to keep the fire alive within my soul.

You guys can look at it as "charity" but I doubt anyone who says that has ever taken the time to produce the same types of product they are. They are providing more of a service to me than I was getting out of ESPN, certainly more than the Home Shopping Network, and definitely more than any "reality" TV shows. I paid my cable bill and all that got me was 3 zillion channels of bad tv. With the YouTube model, I have the option to PAY for what I consider to be good, me chipping in means that instead of a short trip such as the SV Velocir series, perhaps the guys running it can afford a longer trip and continue to provide me with something I want to watch.

I pay.

I am happy to pay.

I am happy for the guys out there fighting the good fight and enjoying life while I am stuck in conference calls and putting the correct cover pages on my TPS reports. THEY are the ones doing it right and I know it.
 
#36 ·
I long ago gave up on the TV after noting that while I paid the cable bill every month, I had not watched the darn thing in 6 months.

With regular TV pretty much aimed at people with tall foreheads and buck teeth, it was clearly a waste of time.

On YouTube, I find people actually DOING something, I enjoy that! I enjoy seeing what they are up to, the issues that they face, the challenges they overcome.

Right now I am fat dumb and happy in a good paying job but in my youth, I was out there on my own adventures (long distance backpacking) so I understand how it feels to have to subsist on a substandard diet due to money constraints or to struggle with gear that is falling apart while having no way to do anything about it.

Furthermore, I intend to be back out there doing it again and each of the YouTubers I watch helps me to keep the fire alive within my soul.

You guys can look at it as "charity" but I doubt anyone who says that has ever taken the time to produce the same types of product they are. They are providing more of a service to me than I was getting out of ESPN, certainly more than the Home Shopping Network, and definitely more than any "reality" TV shows. I paid my cable bill and all that got me was 3 zillion channels of bad tv. With the YouTube model, I have the option to PAY for what I consider to be good, me chipping in means that instead of a short trip such as the SV Velocir series, perhaps the guys running it can afford a longer trip and continue to provide me with something I want to watch.

I pay.

I am happy to pay.

I am happy for the guys out there fighting the good fight and enjoying life while I am stuck in conference calls and putting the correct cover pages on my TPS reports. THEY are the ones doing it right and I know it.
Like you, haven't watched TV in many years (but at friends house

But I do know that much of television is now 'reality tv' that is fake (I say Survivor is real when people start dying) and what is youtube but real reality. When you watch a man or woman sit down in front of a camera, dejected about something that broke on their boat.. you know it isn't created drama.

I also think, regardless if you donate or pay, there are some very intriguing stories out there. And if one start following a series... and you know that your contribution would keep it going.. that is a reason to contribute
 
#35 ·
no. no yoo toob.
i donot find the sailing videos of others out here interesting.
could be because i have been a sailing person for so very long.
watching sailing vids is boring. so was watching dennis connor lose americas cup 1983, with his rounding up each time he caught a decent wind. filmed from above....
and so.... videos of cruisers??? no. sorry.
i post no sailing vids, as sailing vids are boring. i post pix of my sunrises and sunsets and places and anchorages and what i find of interest. sailing videos are not of interest to me, unless they are named pirates of caribean or captain ron, produced well with a decent story plot and actors, forget it.
is more interesting watching a cat jump out window or climb a tree.
rocky and bullwinkle were fun. i would LOVE to watch them.....even sailing...rodl
 
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