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Another first boat searcher looking for advice

4K views 32 replies 16 participants last post by  Stumble 
#1 ·
Hi,

My wife and I have a condo in North Myrtle Beach, SC and are considering buying a sailboat. We're empty nesters, and would keep the boat in a slip, so trailering is not our issue. I do plan to take ASA courses, or something similar. Looking for a boat appropriate for a newer sailor. Looking for something to have fun sailing while we're at the beach.

I learned to sail when I was young at camp, sailing Sunfish, Lightnings, Flying Scot's and other similar boats. Years ago, I've had an Aquacat and a Hobie, but this would be my first sailboat other than those. I have had several runabouts, bowriders, and a pontoon.

I've looked at online ads at 22 to 28ft models, and tentatively have a budget around $4,000 - $8,000. I can go higher if I have a good reason, but not sure that I would need to for our needs. Several boats have looked interesting:

Catalina 22 or 25 or 27
Cal 2-27
Macgregor 25
Ericson 27

Any advice on the above, or any suggestions for others to look for? I appreciate any direction.

Thanks!
 
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#7 ·
So a cockpit that seats 6 while sailing, room for 2 below to sleep, and a reasonable head are probably your requirements.

I would get something with a keel and try to avoid an inboard engine.

I would personally lean toward a boat with a relatively larger cockpit and smaller cabin for the size.

That would mean not the Macgregor 25. I think the 27 footers are above your price range for a boat in decent condition.

I would look for a Catalina 25, Beneteau 235, or a C&C 25.
 
#9 ·
I'd go with the bigger boats as well. The difference in space between a 25 and a 27 is quite a bit. You didn't say how tall the two of you are but headroom is nice and you may find that the V-berths in most of those are pretty small. You should be able to find a Catalina 27 in your price range with some looking.
 
#10 ·
bps
I sail in the nmb area also. In my opinion, and like others have said, go with the larger side of your preference. You will be ocean sailing almost exclusively, so you and friends will end up being more comfortable as the swells build. Also, eventually you will want to daysail (5 to 8 hours depending on conditions) to Southport for overnight stays so the extra room will be nice. We see both inboard and outboards in your size range.

PM me if you want to discuss/meet up.
 
#11 ·
Jason,

I'd appreciate any advice about sailing around NMB. I tried to PM, but don't have enough posts yet. Looking forward to looking at some boats, and hopefully will get a little warmer for that. Are you full time in NMB? Where are you sailing out of?

thanks,

Bernard Scott
 
#13 · (Edited)
I believe that most respondents give you a good answer based on how they perceive the question (yours is far too vague) and their experiences (which is mostly unknown to anybody except themselves). Of the hundreds of "what should be the my first sailboat" threads that I have read, I've never seen one that is as comprehensive as this book: Your First Sailboat, by Daniel Spurr.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check out the book. My wife and I spend a lot of time at NMB and I'm interested in having a boat there. It would be used mostly for day sailing although I'd be interested in eventually going somewhere. Most trips would be my wife and myself but we may take one or two other couples with us for some day sailing. My sailing experience is in smaller boats like a Sunfish, Hobies and similar, so I'm looking for advice about what may be a good first boat. I'd like to start with a fairly affordable boat to see if my wife will enjoy it as much as I know I will. Was hoping to find something under $10,000, but if I need to go higher I will. Would like to find a boat that doesn't require substantial upgrades/improvements and I'll learn to maintain and improve it.

So far, my search has been only online, but look forward to looking at boats. If more information is needed to help stear me, then I'd be happy to answer.
 
#15 · (Edited)
There are lots of boats all over the world that sit unused because the owners bought based on what they may do with the boat instead of what they really will do. Get a boat that best fits how you will use it most of the time. If you can't define that, then maybe you should spend some time renting or sailing on other peoples' boats.

My recommendation is to develop a list of criteria and then prioritize them. Look at, and if possible sail, the locally available boats that fit your criteria. Choose the one you like the best.

Most of the time, I sail by myself or with one other person, for a few hours, no racing. So I have a comfortable daysailor that costs about US$10 per year to maintain and I can have the sails up within 10 minutes of getting out of my car. A boat big enough for me to want to sleep on is too big for what I really want to do most of the time. When I want to sail with a few couples, we charter a boat and go for a week or more. No way do I want to take care of a boat that big. You may be different.

If you try to define your possibilities by manufacturer and model, the chances of you finding one for sale locally are miniscule and you may miss out on a great boat that nobody mentioned.
 
#16 ·
My recommendation is to develop a list of criteria and then prioritize them. Look at, and if possible sail, the locally available boats that fit your criteria. Choose the one you like the best.
Best advice on this thread IMHO - start looking at the boats for sale in your area, that are in your budget. You will start to get a feel for what you like/don't like about certain models/sizes, etc. When I was looking, I wanted something in the 27-30 range. I regularly looked at boats that were available in my area. All 27' are not the same. For example, early on I ruled out Catalina 27's because the V berth was way too small for an adult to sleep in - something I realized after looking at one. Suprisingly, I ended up buying a smaller boat than I thought I wanted (25') when I found one that had a layout that suited my needs better than many 27s, and was in fantastic upkept condition. If you go out and look at them, you will know when you found the one when you see it.
 
#17 ·
You may find that "one boat that can do all this" means a lot more $$ than you want to spend. For instance, a 22-24 foot boat would be fine for a couple, or four, daysailing. No head, no running water, no ice box...just a simple boat with few maintenance needs and low costs, so it is convenient to sail. And "no head" means first make real sure you and your wife can both live with them, or an "emergency bucket" as needed.

But as you step up, if you want comfortable overnights you may want to move up to 28' where plumbing and a cramped head and shower are more common, and having four people sleep on the boat overnight isn't a problem. The problem will be if you want a total of SIX people on the boat. Now, a full galley, bigger head, and a separate rear cabin or double quarterberth become necessary unless someone likes sleeping on deck.

And as you move up in size, marina costs go up, maintenance costs go up, and if you really want to enjoy sailing, you're going to want NEW sails on that older boat. It is the difference between buying a junker and buying a new car properly tuned with new brakes and tires, but even more so.

If "six" is important, you might want to consider chartering versus buying a bigger boat. It might come out cheaper if you don't go out that often with six. Or, you might start with 1 24' for the two of you, with two guests, now. And plan ahead, don't make any really big personal investments in it, and reconsider changing boats in a couple of years. (One big part of that would be buying a "common" boat with a known resale market for it.)

That's not uncommon either.
 
#18 ·
I've had every size and type of boat ranging from 16' to 31', and currently am incredibly happy with my 28 footer. Based on what you've described as your perceived needs, I think a boat in the 27-28 size would be ideal.

I like what you get in that size range. Possibly, standing headroom in much of the cabin, a little galley, an enclosed head, and a cabin big enough to actually call a cabin. Once you get to that size boat, you get a proper little ship. When I leave my slip to go sail Lake Michigan for the day or weekend, I know I have everything I need to keep me comfy. Enough space, a cooler, food, room for my "stuff". It becomes my cottage on the water, so I don't feel I have to go back to the slip when the wind falters or I want to take a break. Toss out the anchor at one of my favorite spots, put a sunshade over the cockpit, and enjoy a book, snack, whatever.

Sure...if I went bigger, I'd have more of the things that make me comfy, but with every foot you add to the boat, you increase the expense, hassle, and maintenance exponentially.

At 27 to 28 you can accommodate 1 to 6 people, although if you're going out on a day with good wind and weather and you really want to sail the boat, you'll probably find 6 is too many. I suggest it's MUCH easier to adjust your expectations on crew size than it is to get a boat that will always be appropriate for 6 people. That said, last summer we had 10 people out one day. It was a calm day and all we did was motor and sight-see, but for a couple hours it was fun. Otherwise, for actual sailing, I wouldn't exceed 4 adults. YMMV.
 
#19 ·
My current boat also happens to be my first, a Cal 2-25. Like Siamese there was a minimum amount of features and space I was looking for so I went for a small "big" boat with an inboard diesel, flushing head, built-in ice box, etc. that can (technically) sleep up to five people (that really like each other). I did however rent/borrow/charter/crew aboard boats ranging from 15-40 feet for 12 years before deciding to purchase one, so I had a good idea of what I wanted in a weekend cruiser.

I've been very happy with my decision, but being ignorant about the various costs of boat ownership not having previously owened; I kinda wish I had gone with a 30 footer if for no other reason than every marina I keep my boat in or visit has rates based on a 30 foot minimum.
 
#20 ·
The folks above gave very good advice, EXCEPT the importance of not buying
a project boat. Sure, they are cheap at first blush, but you can spend years
and tens of thousands before getting them splashed. Your spouse will not
be happy with such an arrangement.

Quite a few boats out there have negative value - they are worth less
than nothing, and in fact the owners should be paying YOU to take them
off their hands. But of course, they won't.

A boat that is ready to sail (good outboard, sails, etc.) is worth AT LEAST
50% more than one that "needs a bit of work." (probly 100%)

For $ 10,000 you can find such a boat.

Get a tough, hard-ass Advisor. Men get seriously irrational when boat shopping.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...m0JJPd9fAKE7F-TabeHTSqPQ&ust=1455510547315721
 
#21 ·
I appreciate the advice shared. I'm starting to go see some boats, and have a list that I'd like to see. On the surface, a Cal 2-29 and a Pearson 28-2 look good. There are a couple of Hunter 28.5's in my area, while I'd have to sail or ship the Cal or Pearson. An Ericson 25 looks good to me and is priced lower, but I think I'll take the majority of the advice to be in the 28 ft range. Definitely will do a survey before purchase, but looking forward to seeing some boats.
 
#22 ·
I had an Ericson 27. Of the boats you mentioned get the Cal. Much better in every regard. My Ericson hated... HATED going up wind into a swell and had a nice case of acne on the bottom. A lot of them had alcohol stoves and Atomic 4 engines. My stove blew up once - no fun, and the engine was a full time job to keep running. I sailed a Catalina 27 quite a bit and it was fun and sailed well. Take a look at those too, or the Catalina 30.
 
#24 ·
Looked at a few boats this weekend and here's what I found:

1986 Pearson 28-2 Asking price $14,900. Generally liked this boat. Seems to be in reasonably good shape except for some cosmetics. The cabin has decent cushions, but the wood shows wear and the flooring did not look good. Recently water had been in the boat from the engine cooling. This has been fixed and a new bilge pump installed. A furling system is included and a bimini, and Yanmar diesel. Nothing looked out of the ordinary for this age boat. Broker indicated that this one could be had for around $11,500.

1989 Catalina 27 Asking price $8450. Liked the larger cockpit in the Catalina, but this one was a cosmetic dog. Could be interested in a well kept Cat 27 but no on this one.

1973 C&C 30 Asking price $17,500. This is I think the best kept boat I saw. Substantial amount of work was done in 2008, including repowering with a Perkins diesel. A lot of work was also done in 2014, including painting the hull. The cabin is in great shape and is larger than the other boats. It also includes a refrigerator while the other ones have ice boxes. I'll be mostly day sailing and eventually a few weekend trips, so the cabin is not the highest of my priorities. Sail inventory is the best on this one, including 5 fore sails. A dingy is also included. I think for what is included and the shape of this boat, this may be the best value I saw. However, my needs may be well met but some of the other boats for less money. Not sure what this one could be had for.

1987 Hunter 28.5 Asking price $13,900. This boat looks much newer and in better shape than the Pearson. Cabin is in good shape. This one does have a Yanmar, includes furling and a bimini and a full enclosure. The owner has purchased a larger boat, and broker indicates this one could be had for $9500.

1985 Hunter 28.5 Asking price is $12,500. Overall not in as good a shape as the other one, although cabin may be a hair better, but both were good. This one does not have a furler or any type of cover, so I think the other one is a much better value.

On all the boats, I did look for signs of water damage, or leaks through portlights, etc and all seem to be in good shape in this regard. Brightwork on all of them could use some attention, but I am more concerned with boat and sailing qualities. I will have a survey done before any purchase.

The C&C is interesting as I think it may be the best value, but to me, the Pearson and Hunter look to be good first boats. As the Hunter is in better shape and has a full enclosure and better cabin for a lower cost, I am seriously considering buying this boat.

Any thoughts?
 
#25 ·
The price on the C&C is a bit high despite the 'goodies' incl newer engine, what shape are all those sails in, and does the battery bank support refrigeration?

Clearly of the two Hunters one has more value for all the canvas and furling. Dealing with a reluctant two-boat owner usually works out well for the buyer.

Curious.. the broker who's downpricing these boats - your 'buyers broker' or the listing broker?
 
#26 · (Edited)
On the C&C the mainsail is older but looks in good shape. Jibs may be newer, but not brand new, and look in good shape. It does have three batteries if I remember correctly. It's a 4 owner boat and the 2008 work was done by the longest tenure owner. The 2014 work was done by the current owner when he bought the boat.

Both were listing brokers, and the comments about pricing were not prompted by me. The Pearson owner now lives about 8 hrs from the marina, so is getting out of sailing. His much younger wife also doesn't enjoy sailing...or so I'm told. I've seen a Cal 2-29 listed for $12,900, but it's a ways away and would cost about $1600 to ship.

If the Pearson was in the same shape with similar extras, I think it would be the better buy. It did seem like it is better built but the Hunter just seems like it might be the better "first boat" buy.
 
#27 ·
I owned an E 27 and spent a bunch of time on a Catalina 27 and the Cal 2-27. To me…. The Cal was the best all around sailing boat. We won a lot of beer can races and had a bunch of fun going to Catalina Ils. from New Port. The Catalina points better than the Ericson and makes headway better in a swell. I suggest that you consider which one will be in the best condition for the price that you are willing to pay. My Ericson had an Atomic 4….. (Never again). Other will tell you that they had great luck with theirs and be telling you the truth…. Mine was the reason I got rid of the boat…… There are a bunch of 22 - 29 footers that you can look at. Santana's get up and go and you may want to look at a Tarten 10 or C & C. Have fun!
 
#29 ·
Personally, I wouldn't even consider a Hunter from the 80's, I don't care for them.

C&C's are nice boats.
C&C's are nice boats, and the 30mk1 is probably one of their most popular but it's getting on 43 years old.

And the Hunters, well, they're out there, plenty sold and one that's been taken care of and still in good shape (a measly 30 years on ;)) probably still has a few decent years left. To each their own, but I think the late 80s/early 90s was their heyday..
 
#30 ·
I have a Cal 2-27 that has worked out very well as our first boat (we bought her 4 years ago). It has an Atomic 4 and I would have no problem buying another boat with that engine. I hear comments on both sides of this issue. I have had a few issues here and there, but the key is that I have been able to fix these issues because the engine is only slightly more complicated than my lawnmower, and I have problems now and then with that too.

One thing I like about this boat is the interior has a very homey feel to it due to the wood. This is important for my type of use because my family of four spends the occasional night aboard. They enjoy being on the boat but would not be so enthusiastic if it had the feel of a white fiberglass ski boat down below.

This being my first boat I don't have a broad experience to draw an opinion from, but to me the build quality seems solid and well-detailed. I haven't encountered anything that looks like a shortcut to me. I do recommend you read up a bit on the three different models of 27-foot Cal (1, 2, and 3-27). I recall that the 2-27 was the more desirable of the three in terms of size; I don't remember the details so do your own research.

As far as the choice of a 27-foot boat, I'll pass along that a sailor friend of mine who helped pick out this boat told me that "a 27-foot boat is either the smallest of the big boats or the biggest of the small boats." As a first boat, it is a good size to learn maneuvering around the dock and marina, yet it is big enough to have an enclosed head and sleeping space for 4.

Overall, my advice would be to be patient and look at lots of boats. There is a more or less continuous dribble of suitable boats coming up for sale, so no potential deal will be the last opportunity.
 
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