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  #1  
Old 10-24-2006
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Schooners, Ketches, and Sloops

Ok there must be good reasons for each rig. Are some better downwind and others better on a reach? Maybe some can point higher? Nowadays most production boats are sloops, but is that because they are simpler rigs and therefore cheaper to produce? I have heard that a schooner does not point very well. Also that ketches split the square footage up into smaller chunks so sail handling is easier. Is there a respected reference work on this subject? I would like to hear the collective wisdom of the forum. What's your idea of a "best" rig--and why?
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Old 10-24-2006
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Schooners, Ketches and Sloops, O' my!

I couldn't resist.
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Old 10-24-2006
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It's said , though not by me of course, that Schooners are only really good for drinking beer out of and looking picturesque at anchor while Ketches, by dint of the mizzen mast give you something to lean against while standing in the cockpit drinking the first schooner and gazing wistfully at the other.

ps - does a schooner as a beer glass mean anything to anyone outside of the land of Oz ? No I don't mean Kansas.

On the other hand checkout this link and you might just understand why someone would want a schooner. http://www.setsail.com/dashew/dashoff.html
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Old 10-24-2006
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Don't know much about schooners but all other things being equal...a sloop will go to weather closer than a ketch but the ketch breaks down the loads into more manageable ones and give you redundancy that all those guys who carry sextants should like! My own boat was originally designed by Perry as a sloop but as a ketch I fit under the ICW bridges! While ketches are a bit salty looking, I think that with the self tailing winches and large drums available today, there is really no need for the extra expense of a ketch rig until you get up in the 45'+ range for a couple (or need to lower your mast height for bridges!). The rig takes up some deck room and requires some support underneath as well so you also lose space there. I wouldn't trade mine for anything but we weren't looking for a ketch until she found us! The sloop/cutter rig seems to me to be the most logical choice for most boats and cruising purposes.
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Old 10-24-2006
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Cameraderie

You hit the nail right on the head. If you find a boat that tugs at your heart strings then to hell with this debate on which rig to go for. Provided of course that she's not riddled with dry rot, osmosis or electrolysis and has the sailing ability of a large rock. Reality is that a well sailed schooner will still outrun a poorly sailed sloop under most conditions. When we bought the Old Dear we weren't looking for a steel , double headsail sloop but she did it for us and we have no regrets.

tdw
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Old 10-25-2006
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Here is a link to an earlier discussion on this topic that includes a discussion of the various rigs:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying...light=Schooner

Jeff
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Old 10-25-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
but all other things being equal...a sloop will go to weather closer than a ketch but the ketch breaks down the loads into more manageable ones

there is really no need for the extra expense of a ketch rig until you get up in the 45'+ range for a couple (or need to lower your mast height for bridges!).
That's what I've heard/experienced as well. Although, I'm not even sure that these days a 45'+ sloop can't be handled by a couple - I know a couple who quite happily sail a 55' Tayana sloop/cutter (with electric main winches). The 72' air draft might make low bridges an issue though!

What about yawls?
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Old 10-25-2006
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'tis true wot you say about big boats with all those electric gizmos but why would you want to ? Mayhaps if you have an oversupply of sprogs but I can't figure out why any two people would want such a large boat. Cameraderie sails a 52' Tayana so he'll certainly disagree with me but I'd rather a smaller boat that can be easily handled by two people, one in a pinch, without having to resort to in mast main reefing or electric winches. then again, an old fart like me would say that wouldn't he ?

Yawls - IIRC that they are nothing more than a rule beater from days long gone. There have been, however, some very pretty boats of the type. Concordias may not have much room down below but oh what sweet lines, then there was Ondine, Dorade and the list goes on.
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
TDW...obviously, we disagree. We love our space...it is our home and we are BIG people and we like to be comfortable and private and SAFE at sea. I easily single hand this boat...more easily than my prior 44' boat... and it stands up to the roughest weather with an easy motion. I have an electric winch which makes things a bit quicker and easier but did it by hand the first 2 years we had the boat...and still can in a pinch. The only downside of in-boom furling is the expense. Setting that aside it is the simplest and safest method of reducing sail at sea. Can your wife reef your mainsail in 20 knots unassited?
I used to hold the same opinion of larger boats till I found out how much EASIER they were to sail and live on. Having said that...they are a lot more expensive to live on and keep up. The important thing remains to get a boat that you can afford to buy and KEEP and then enjoy the sail.
I agree with you on yawls...the mizzen is useful in keeping you from swinging on anchor too!
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Some believe in sailing smaller and simpler craft, others want the comforts of home in a floating version.
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