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  #31  
Old 04-03-2007
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Idiens-

The problem with a furled 140% genoa in heavy winds is that the sail no longer can keep a flat shape, due to the way the furler works. It will tend to have a fairly full shape, that can not be flattened, and will be powered up just when you want to depower the sail most.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #32  
Old 04-03-2007
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SD - So I wind a bit more in, if I too much power.
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2007
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I'm with you Idiens, roller furling is my prefered thing too, don't like going to the bow.

But the funny thing is, as you roll up the center of effort gets higher and higher, and the sail gets baggier and baggier both of which increase the heeling moment you are trying to reduce, so it's less than ideal, can you at least admit that Idiens?

Ditch the roller furler, hank on a working jib, and it's gonna be better in conditions that need a jib. Unfortunately your increased boat speed may be used to move the boat further away from where you just fell off the bow after hanking on that jib. :P

It's all about trade offs, noone is saying roller furling is better for sail shape SD. Noone is saying roller furling isn't convenient and maybe safer Idiens.

Now I'm certain some of the big boys will comment how their super high tech racing furler has the best of both worlds and prove me wrong. Gui..?

I think to answer your question Idiens, figure out local conditions and put up the one that will operate best in that range. In the PNW for my boat that would probably mean putting on the 130 for the fall and winter season, then switching to the 150 for summer's lighter air. Heck, I might get a jib for the winter then just wait till I see whitecaps to go out.
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2007
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My old genoa did not have the problems that you decribe tenuki. In heavy weather it was wound so far in that what was left was quite flat. The new one has two foam strips on the luff which takes out the initial bagginess, at the expense of a fatter furled luff. Yes, I agree its not so good a sail, but I'm a cruiser, not a racer, and in those conditions I am trying to be comfortable not super efficient.
I may lose 5 degrees pointing, compared to the super efficient just-the-right-size sail, but in a couple of minutes the wind is higher, and the super efficient sail is too large. OK, off goes Number 1 and changes down - in racing. Me, I pull this line here, from the comfort of my wheelhouse, and the sail gets smaller.
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it may have been flat, but the center of effort was higher, right? so at least one of the factors I described was in play. The only way you could get around the moving center of effort problem would be to have the sail cut so the foot was more or less perpendicular to the forestay I think, now that would be a sucky sail shape. lol.

Wheelhouse!?! ok, i'm jealous.
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I do carry an ATN GaleSaile, which is a smaller sail that hanks on over the furled genoa, for really bad weather conditions. I haven't had a reason to use it yet... but I do have it just in case. The reason I carry it is that in really bad weather conditions, a serious risk to a roller furled headsail is it unfurling at the wrong time. By hoisting this sail over it, there is almost no chance of the genoa unfurliing. This sail will sheet flatter and perform better in the really high winds I would be using it in as well.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #37  
Old 04-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenuki
it may have been flat, but the center of effort was higher, right?
Higher than what? I guess is one answer. I carry a storm sail on a movable babystay. I guess the genoa CP at the same area furled may be a little higher, but also further forward.

SD- I like the GaleSaile idea, I don't like the idea of rigging it in a gale.
I don't like rigging my storm sail either, but I'm not on the bow and I can tether out of range of falling in the sea. I can pre-rig the storm sail on the baby stay with sail ties and release it and hoist when necessary. When I furl the genoa in a storm, I pull in a few extra turns to wrap the sheets around it and down near the deck. That way it's fairly trussed up and the sheets are running lower too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idiens
Higher than what?
Why be difficult?

Last edited by tenuki; 04-04-2007 at 02:38 PM.
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenuki
Why be difficult?
They say sailors start racing as soon as they sight another yacht.
Alone, I'm happy beating at about 100 degrees tack angle. Then someone like Giu comes into sight and I'm rushing around tweeking, tuning and trimming. I know I'll never match his speed to windward. But I still try. It comes from a miss-spent youth in racing boats.
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Old 04-05-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idiens
They say sailors start racing as soon as they sight another yacht.
Alone, I'm happy beating at about 100 degrees tack angle. Then someone like Giu comes into sight and I'm rushing around tweeking, tuning and trimming. I know I'll never match his speed to windward. But I still try. It comes from a miss-spent youth in racing boats.
Indiens

I do that even if I don't see another boat......

Just in case somebody comes around the corner
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