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what would you pay?

3K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  sailaway21 
#1 ·
I recently came across some haul out and repair receipts from a 34' boat that was surveyed every three years by the owner. Its an early 90's CS. The repairs included things like bottom paint and minor blisters, hoses, fittings, bearings, packing, minor gelcoat work, nothing that looked too major. All work done by reputable yards. The cost averaged 3 grand every time. Not having owned a boat before, is this a price that I can expect every three years?
Thanks for your input.
 
#3 ·
I was hoping you would say that. At least, if I put an offer on this boat, I know everything that has been done, and their shouldn't be too many surprises. knock on wood! At 80 bucks an hour, service sure does add up.
 
#4 ·
Labor is often the most expensive component of any repair. If you do the work yourself, it has several benefits over having a yard do it.

1) You know how the work was done.
2) You know what materials were used.
3) You know who to blame if the repair has a problem.
4) Saves you some money.
5) If you do have a problem with the same thing, it is likely that you'll have a pretty good idea of how to fix it, and what went wrong.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Shouldn't be too many surprises

eastbaylostboys said:
I was hoping you would say that. At least, if I put an offer on this boat, I know everything that has been done, and their shouldn't be too many surprises. knock on wood! At 80 bucks an hour, service sure does add up.
I certainly would not make that assumption. You would easily spend $3,000 A YEAR having a yard do just routine annual maintenance, and the items you referenced are of that type. When (not IF) the boat needs upgrades and refits you can face some real costs, where $3,000 is chump change. Sure you can take some stuff on yourself, if you have the time, skills and patience. But CS is a quality marque, and future buyers expect work on such boatsto be done properly if not professionally, and not all us handy-man tinkers have the expertise necessary to do specialty marine repairs properly. Samples of upgrades, any ONE of which would cost more than $3,000: new cushions, electronics, sails, wiring, steering, deck core repairs, rigging, and the list goes on. FWIW my annual budget for a 36 including winter haul is $5,000 including no financing or yard repair charges.
If the boat in question has been properly maintained over the past 15 years, the owner should have a 1-2 inch high stack of receipts, what you describe sounds like just keeping things afloat.
Boats are expensive, quality boats like CS are very expensive and yard service bills for quality boats are "if you have to ask you can't afford it...C. Vanderbilt"
 
#6 ·
Fool, very good response!...
please also note that your "yard" may not allow you to do a bottom job on your own boat.

from a marina's newletter...
"As is our policy, we cannot allow any open air sanding. Remember we are a dustless sanding yard and this means that no bottom paint dust or chips can enter the ground around your boat. If you plan to do extensive bottom prep work this winter or spring, please specify on the enclosed decommissioning work order to have us lay a tarp on the ground before we block your boat so that stands can be on top of the tarp. This is mandatory. Do it yourself bottom prep, sanding and scraping must be done on "approved" ground cover tarps."

Was it surveyed every three years for insurance purposes?
 
#7 ·
Lost...
I would suggest that 3k is the MINIMUM you may expect. The normal little stuff is what you HOPE for...but then you get slammed by the big stuff every now and then...tranny failure, refrigeration goes, major engine problems, docking damage etc.
Not trying to discourage you...but boats will always cost more than you plan...and make you happier than you thought!!
 
#8 · (Edited)
That was my next question. I am a DIYer. Do yards charge a lot (per diem) to let you work on your own boat after its been hauled and surveyed. I wouldn't take on the big stuff, but minor repairs are up my alley.
No, not discouraged. Its the reality of owning a boat that I am learning, with your gracious advice. Don't know why it was surveyed every three years, I will find out today when I go see it. As for a quality boat, I would rather pay more for the quality boat in the hopes that things will last longer, than say, buying a cheaper boat where parts look like they would break off in your hand.
I would never assume that there won't be big repairs. I have too much experience with classic car repair to fall for that one! I even owned a British car once. The passenger seat was filled with spare parts. There were more repairs than what I listed, including standing rigging. What is good to see is that he had everything fixed that the surveyor recommended.
 
#9 ·
You need to do some careful shopping in this area. Where we are, if you price out a typical 3 day spring haulout, you'll find prices work out around the same with lift fees and storage(day) fees. However if you break it down, one yard has a higher lift fee but a lower daily rate, others vice versa. If all goes according to plan, your 3 day cost is the same, but if you pick the one with the highest daily rate, and then find some unexpected problem(s) you could end up paying that rate for an extended period of time.
 
#10 ·
Hell, maintenance expenses are the easy part of boat ownership, since I'm a DIYer too. Just seasonal slip fees and winter drydock storage alone, costs me $4,500 ANNUALLY . . . and the rates keep on rising each year. Add to that insurance, service parts & gear, high labor rates when I DO need to hire someone, + the loss in wages each hour I'm not working for my clients . . . I don't want to know the total amount I spend each year.

You will be better off with a quality-built boat - through fewer breakdowns and a higher pride of ownership. In spite of the costs, there's never been a doubt in my mind that it's all worth it. Keep on working for your dream and never look back.
 
#12 · (Edited)
docking damage

Cruisingdad said:
Cam,

You mentioned "... docking damage...". Now exactly what do you mean?? Surely you have never rubbed the dock?

(smile)

- CD
The question reminds me of the wonderful day we launched my old C&C 30, sporting a just finished, barely dry, fire engine red Awlgrip job. White bottom, white double boottop and new gold foil cove strip, she was breath-taking to behold.

How exciting. I backed her out of the straps, pulled over the work dock, and jumped on the float to tie her up. Yikes, she came in with just a little way on, which rolled the midship fender up, and before I could get the fender back down, the float edge put a two foot long gouge exactly in the middle of the topsides.

That was twenty years ago - I happened to see the boat last year and that paint job still looks pretty good, but my eyes immediately picked that scratch out of the general wear-n-tear..
 
#14 ·
Right on,

It is all a part of the game. Compare the insurance, taxes, mortgage et all of life on shore to the maintainance costs of a boat, and it will be an eye opener. I have (not to "ad naseaum") been working on boats just about as long as I have lived, and I guess I would say that describing your issues to other cruisers in the same anchorage may bring some surprising (and welcome!) solutions to issues you may have onboard. You never know... I fix anything from radars to reductions, (I am an engineer) and nobody (hardly) broaches the topic with me vis-a-vis problems on board. It seems to me that all figure they must get hauled and pay the overpriced rate for labor performed all too often by unskilled non-sailors and in the end owe their life, boat, and freedom to whatever rate, price and whim the owner of the yard states.
To me, this is a travesty.
I propose, I guess, that we all try like hell to utilize each other when it comes to repairs. (I also realise that this is akin to asking a pile of anarchists to elect a spokesman) but I do not think inexperienced Mexican laborers (as there were in the last yard I worked for) are worth $80.00 an hour. (I KNOW they aren't.)
I guess what I am saying is look to our own for expertise and time, not the fllatlanders.
 
#15 ·
maintenance costs

Hello,

As others have posted, if you are going to pay a yard to perform all the work required to maintain a boat, you will pay more than $3K a year (on average).

On the other hand, if you do most of the work yourself, you can cut that down significantly.

I was worried about maintenance costs when, in 2004, I bought a 1986 Newport 28. To my relief, maintenance costs have been very low. I live on Long Island, NY, and my boat gets hauled in the fall and launched in the spring. I am fortunately in that the yard I use allows me to work on the boat and they provide power and water. Anyway, I winterize the boat myself (costs less than $50 for antifreeze, oil, filters, etc.) In the spring I sand and paint the bottom (about $200 for paint, sandpaper, etc.). Add some extra money for bedding compound, etc,. and you get the idea.

I bought and installed a GPS / Sounder myself, very easy to do and pretty cheap too.

I did pay a guy to remove an old thru hull speed sensor, I was afraid that if I did something wrong the boat would sink.

Some other things I have done include: install new head ($200 for head and assorted stuff), install solor powered vent ($150), remove alternator , get new voltage regulator installed, re-install alternator, install 2 new batteries, change engine oil, trans fluid, coolant, zincs, etc.

The thing is that if you have some time and are willing to learn, you can do most of the maintenance yourself. If you have a lot of money, you can pay people to do it (which is certainly easier).

I like to save money on the standard things so that when it's time to buy a new set of sails it doesn't hurt so much.

Barry
Barry Lenoble
Noble Prize
1986 Newport 28
Mt. Sinai, NY
 
#16 ·
For me, there are some things I'm willing to pay for the first time, so I can SEE how they are done, not just read about it. Having owned 3 English cars, I had to become somewhat proficient mechanically, but often times found myself taking the long way around on some stuff. So far this summer, I've installed a wind generator, a new 3 battery house bank, new high output alternator w/external regulator, reinstalled the entire propane system from bottle to stove, rebedded too many things to count, replumbed most of the boat, fabricated a new shift lever, and other various assorted routine things.

What I didn't do is rebuild the anchor locker lids and install the new windlass, make any cables over 8 gauge, or any epoxy work, though I did watch how all of these were done (and ask lots of questions) so I could do them myself next time I need to.

Even so, I still went way over my budgeted amount for the refit. But at least I know what I have now.
 
#17 ·
One of the most sensible pieces of advise I've read here is doing as much work yourself as possible. It takes longer and may not come out quite as well, or maybe better, but in the end you know how it was done and, if necessary, are much more able to fix it or troubleshoot it. This is how the boat becomes YOUR boat. Otherwise you're probably just renting.
 
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