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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2006
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My favorite topic! Pilothouse sailboats. Of course, living in the San Juan Islands/Pacific NW makes a PH a great choice for year round sailing. Plus, when properly designed, I just like the way they look. By that I mean the designer or architect started out designing a PH, not where the builder just added the PH to an existing model (I've seen some pretty unattractive examples of the latter).

William Garden has stated one of his favorite designs of all time was the "little Gulf 32". As a Capital Yachts product, I think it would need to be beefed up for true bluewater cruising, but many have done so without major modifications. IMHO, some other nice PH models with an inside helm (and these are SAILBOATS, not motorsailers, though living here I would love a Nauticat 32) are the Endurance 35 and 44; Sceptre 43; Hans Christian 39 PH; Corbin 39; Spindrift 43; Cooper 353 and 416; Tayana 37 PH; CT 41 PH; Rawson 30 PH (another Garden design); CSY 44 PH; Hardin 45; Newporter 41 (a wooden boat); Cascade 42 PH; and any number of custom Brewer, Benford, Buehler, Perry, and Garden designs. In fact, my last boat was a custom Garden Gulf 40 - flush deck with a low profile PH. Awesome boat! Visibilty from the aft cockpit was no problem whatsoever. Again, if the design is properly executed, visibility is not an issue.

If you are into motorsailers, the Nauticats are great, and I really love the look of the Fishers. Island Trader and Islander made some very roomy models great for living aboard, but not for sailing performance. The Columbia 41 and 45 are pretty roomy and supposedly sail decently. And Island Packet has just introduced their newest model, the SP Cruiser.

A lot of people say the big windows on a PH are a problem. Storm plexiglass added to the outside helps. But then I met a couple in Tonga who sailed their Cooper 416 there with no problems, and Bob Bitchin sailed his Formosa 56 PH 50,000 miles back and forth across two oceans with no issues. Plus he owned two Formosa 51s and never had a problem with PH windows. My boat had been from Seattle to Alaska and back with rough conditions on the outside (not the Inside Passage), and the windows were never a worry.

I also know someone who was on a nasty Gulf Stream crossing on a Valiant 40 - a boat most everyone would agree is a safe, strong bluewater cruiser - and one of the cabin trunk portlights was caved in by a wave. Go figure, eh?

If you are a prudent mariner, I think a well designed and executed PH can make a perfectly fine bluewater passagemaker. I plan on cruising someday in one.
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Last edited by Moonfish; 11-10-2006 at 01:18 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2006
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Moonfish-

Are you aware that only some of the Nauticats are designed as motorsailors, and the others, including the Nauticat 321, are designed as auxiliary pilothouse sailboats, with an emphasis on sailing performance?

The sailboats include the 321, 351, 37, 385, 42, and 515. The 33/331, 38, 44 are motorsailors.

Finally, the 321/351/37/385/42/515 are EU RCD A, while the 33/331/38/44 are EU RCD B.
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #23  
Old 11-10-2006
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My wife and I really liked the build quality and layout of the 321 we inspected at the Newport Boatshow last year . . . but, nearly $300,000.00 for a partially fitted out, 32 ft sloop is pricey. With the way the exchange rates have changed, $300,000.00 US would equal $363,935.96 Euro.
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2006
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Sailingdog -

Yes, sorry I didn't make that more clear. I'm a big fan of Nauticats and know that most of the Siltala models are actually good performing sailboats. I only mentioned them in regards to motorsailers as I actually would love to own a mid-80s N32 up here (I like at least some exterior teak).

My list was also one that is made up mainly of boats that I like from the 70s and 80s, becuase that's what I can afford...
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2006
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Moonfish-

The N32 is not a "motorsailor" according to the Nauticat site. Also, it wasn't designed until 1990. From the website.

Quote:
At the end of 1986 the yard launched an own design that became successful overnight, the Nauticat 35. The boat started a totally new era at the yard, since all yachts starting with the 35 have been designed by Kaj Gustafsson. Now even more attention was put on creating yachts with better sailing performance than earlier and still not loosing the traditional nauticat values as the cosy wooden interior, close warm pilothouse, and safe and good overall performance. The 35 was the first Nauticat in the range of pilothouse sailing yachts, and she was offered with sloop rigging as standard. Earlier the ketch rigging had been the traditional Nauticat way of rigging the boats. The size and accommodation of the aft cabin on a Nauticat 35 is still in the lead of yachts in this size.

Encouraged by the success of the 35 the yard and the designer Kaj Gustafsson launched the nauticat 32 in 1990. This was the smallest Nauticat ever built with the pilothouse concept and this yacht became exceptionally beloved all around the world. With various rigging and keel alternatives the 32 has been adapted for different markets and needs.
Given that the Nauticat 32 wasn't built until 1990, what boat are you talking about... it must be the Nauticat 33, which is their oldest design and is a motorsailor. By Siltala models, I'm assuming you mean their S-series, which were Sparkman & Stevens designs. However, since those boats were discontinued, all of their new sailboats (not motorsailors) were designed by Kaj Gustafsson.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 11-10-2006 at 02:39 PM.
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  #26  
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Here's a short history of Siltala Yachts (renamed Nauticat Yachts last year) :
http://www.nauticatusa.com/sowing_th...f_history.html

The earlier Nauticats were designed by a Finish architect - Aarniapaolo. His designs are still in production (not discontinued) and called "Traditional Pilothouse" yachts. S&S (among others) designed the later models.
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Old 11-10-2006
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TB-
You have your currency rates reversed. When I read your post I thought that change would have been big world news - but not so. I just checked online and $100 = 82.43 Euros. They are still beating us up. As for the 321 naw... you would have to go to the 351 to get the room in a 331.
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  #28  
Old 11-10-2006
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TrueBlue-

From the www.nauticat.com site, it seems to say that the S-series boats, which were the Sparkman & Stevens boats, are no longer in production. They list the Aaarnipaolo-designed motorsailors, and the Gustafsson-designed sailboats as current production models. I never said that the Aarnipaolo designs were discontinued... They are referred to as "Traditional Motorsailors", while the Gustafsson boats are designated "Pilothouse Sailing Yatchs."

ChristyLeigh's right, you have the currency conversion flipped... and the 331 is larger than the 321 because the 331 carries far more beam forward than does the 321, which is designed for better performance under sail. Also, the stern of the 321 is a reverse counter design with a swim ladder...so that loses more interior room, when compared to the double-ended design of the 331.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 11-10-2006 at 02:58 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2006
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Anyone have any thoughts on the 31' Ta Shing Tashiba PH that I posted on page 1 of this thread? I'm not too familiar with the Ta Shing shipyard (or Bob Perry designs for that matter). It looks like a really nicely built boat at a fair price.
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Old 11-10-2006
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You're both right about the currency exchange rate . . . just proves that you shouldn't come to me for investment advice.

I wasn't interested in buying the 321, simply impressed by the design and quality, but in awe over the near-300k price. I love my NC33, with the wide bow and raised aft deck, it has the space rivaling some 40 ft boats we've been on.
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