Catalina 27 - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 04-26-2016 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Catalina 27

Hello all, I have owned a few small sailboats (less than 15') over the last 20 years now I'm ready to buy my first large boat. I have my eye on an early model Catalina 27 with a newer 9.9hp outboard. I plan to use this boat in the pacific nw. I have searched the forums for info on the cat 27, I now know to look at the chain plates and for the Catalina smile. Some posts mention problems with the keel bolts but I am not sure exactly what to look for. I would appreciate any suggestions about Catalina issues. The boats I have been looking at are under 10k, at that price I'm not sure if it makes sense to get a survey or if it's reasonable to roll the dice and figure it out as I go. Any advice/suggestions would be helpful. Thanks
Soul2sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 04-26-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 280
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Catalina 27

It's always your call whether it is worth a survey but to me any boat that is going to live in the water is worth spending the money on a survey. With the time and expense of pulling a boat and fixing things having that information up front would invaluable to me. Cost is usually $400 or so and seems like fairly small insurance to me. The cost of repairs can quickly pass the purchase price of a 'cheap' boat.
tschmidty is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to tschmidty For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-26-2016)
post #3 of 17 Old 04-26-2016
Senior Member
 
mstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 964
Thanks: 25
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Catalina 27

the Catalina 27 is a great boat. Good choice! Should you have a survey? I say it depends on how much you know about boat construction. When I bought my boat 15 years ago, I knew how to sail, but I knew squat about sailboat construction. I paid $5000 for my Oday 23, and paid about $300 for the survey; money very well spent. He identified some bad things I wouldn't have found on my own (some delamination in the foredeck, leaking portholes, some loose fittings, etc.), and some good stuff I didn't know to look for (no blisters on the hull, no evidence of bad groundings or collision). I learned quite a bit about boats in general and my boat in particular. Nowadays, I wouldn't bother with a survey for a boat under 15K because I feel comfortable doing that myself.

Keel bolts: check for evidence of corrosion; are they double-nutted and are there washers under them? Google "Catalina smile" for pictures and tips on what to look for on the outside keel/hull joint.

There are also websites devoted to Catalina owner's associations. Tons of tips and info on Catalina's in general and the 27 in particular. IMHO, I'd avoid the outboard model of the 27. I think you lose some of the most attractive features of having an outboard (the ability to turn the engine) by sticking the outboard in a well. The boat is certainly big enough to deserve an inboard. And the diesel is better than the Atomic 4 gasoline model. Here in CT, a nice C27 with a diesel will cost about 12K; examples of diesel powered models that need TLC will run under 10K. Outboard powered C27's seem to be between 6 and 9K.

Most importantly, you want a dry boat (no leaking deck fixtures unless you are planning to rebed them anyway), no deck delamination (a big, dirty job that will easily cost more to fix than you paid for the whole boat, so unless you are planning on doing it yourself or living with it, avoid the problem), sails in good shape, and a reliable engine.

Again, the C27 is a terrific choice as a compact cruiser that is big enough to really cruise on and small enough to easily day sail. Nice.

Good luck!

Last edited by mstern; 04-26-2016 at 02:38 PM.
mstern is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to mstern For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-26-2016)
post #4 of 17 Old 04-26-2016
Senior Member
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,162
Thanks: 0
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Catalina 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
S
There are also websites devoted to Catalina owner's associations. Tons of tips and info on Catalina's in general and the 27 in particular. IMHO, I'd avoid the outboard model of the 27. I think you lose some of the most attractive features of having an outboard (the ability to turn the engine) by sticking the outboard in a well. The boat is certainly big enough to deserve an inboard. And the diesel is better than the Atomic 4 gasoline model. Here in CT, a nice C27 with a diesel will cost about 12K; examples of diesel powered models that need TLC will run under 10K. Outboard powered C27's seem to be between 6 and 9K.
Almost all Catalinas have active owners association websites. Try International Catalina 27/270 Association or .com. Surprised Google hasn't found it for you already.

The inboard versions of these boats leave a lot to be desired. Usually underpowered, the access to the stuffing box is nigh on impossible. For that reason i suggest that outboards, for which they were originally designed, work just fine, are less expensive and the engines can be pulled for repair. Most C27s with inboards have old, old engines, with horrible access. A friend on another forum (Owner resources, parts, accessories, boats for sale, and more.) is refurbishing his inboard C27 and just spent a week ass over teakettle servicing his inboard. Most if not all of them were raw water cooled, too.
mstern and Lazerbrains like this.

Stu Jackson, Catalina 34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Stu Jackson is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Stu Jackson For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-26-2016)
post #5 of 17 Old 04-26-2016
Senior Member
 
mstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 964
Thanks: 25
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Catalina 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post

The inboard versions of these boats leave a lot to be desired. Usually underpowered, the access to the stuffing box is nigh on impossible. For that reason i suggest that outboards, for which they were originally designed, work just fine, are less expensive and the engines can be pulled for repair. Most C27s with inboards have old, old engines, with horrible access. A friend on another forum (Owner resources, parts, accessories, boats for sale, and more.) is refurbishing his inboard C27 and just spent a week ass over teakettle servicing his inboard. Most if not all of them were raw water cooled, too.
I recently looked at a C27 that had been repowered with a diesel about 15 years ago. I was told it was freshwater cooled. I did not know that was unusual on a C27. Thinking about it now, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Catalina installed raw water cooled units many years ago. But my supposition is that if someone went to the expense of repowering a C27 in the relatively recent past, they might very well have gone with freshwater cooling. Something to look for. And I hadn't considered the stuffing box issue at all. But since I hire someone to do my engine work anyway, it's not top of mind for me.

While wandering around my marina yard this weekend, I saw a C27 (on stands) with saildrive! Given what I've just learned about stuffing box access on the boat, that makes a lot of sense. But it seems like a very pricey upgrade for such an inexpensive boat.

Thanks for the good info Stu.
mstern is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to mstern For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-26-2016)
post #6 of 17 Old 04-27-2016
Captain Obvious
 
Sal Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 1,278
Thanks: 21
Thanked 53 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Catalina 27

The outboard is much easier to service, no doubt. But the fear is prop cavitation in rough water. Anyone know how bad that is with these boats? I haven't ever stayed in because of prop cavitation but there have been times coming back in the inlet with waves from astern that I have had prop cavitation - it is disconcerting.

Sal Paradise

Senior Researcher - Dunning Kruger
Sal Paradise is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Sal Paradise For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-27-2016)
post #7 of 17 Old 04-27-2016
Senior Member
 
weinie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 598
Thanks: 4
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Catalina 27

Access the inboard sucks ass, however, that being said:

The m18 engine on the 27 is more than enough to keep the boat at hull speed and more even against the wind. Keep it well maintained and it should be relatively trouble free.

Change the hoses, replace the alternator wiring and the starter wiring (easy fixes) and the alternator bracket.


If the stuffing box is original, replace it on the hard (drop the rudder, pull the shaft, change the cutlass bearing, etc.) and you will only have to reach down to the tighten the stuffing box every once in a while.

Last edited by weinie; 04-27-2016 at 09:39 AM.
weinie is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to weinie For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-27-2016)
post #8 of 17 Old 04-27-2016
Senior Member
 
travlin-easy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland - USA
Posts: 5,042
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Catalina 27

I had a Catalina 27 with an Atomic 4 gasoline engine, outstanding boat, sailed very, very well, and I never had a problem with getting to the engine or working on it. And, I'm not a young, skinny kid by any means.

As for the 9HP outboard, it seems to me to be a bit under-powered. The A4 that I had was perfectly matched to this boat, and even in the nastiest conditions, the engine did a great job of punching me through the waves and inlet currents. The boat would reach hull speed at just 1800 RPM and I never had to push it hard at all. Additionally, the engine was very smooth and quiet running as opposed to any diesel engine I've used in the past.

Good luck, and I'm confident you will love sailing the C-27,

Gary
Triple7even likes this.
travlin-easy is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to travlin-easy For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-28-2016)
post #9 of 17 Old 04-27-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Catalina 27

My current boat is a Catalina 27 - also in the PNW. I'm assuming you're planning on sailing only in protected waters. This is a great boat for that.

Sounds like you already know some of the things to look for. The problem with the chainplates is that, like many boats, they pass through the deck. So, you can easily inspect the little bit that sticks out above the deck, and you can go below and see the part that bolts to the bulkhead, but the part that fails is the little bit where it passes through the deck - the part you can't inspect easily. With an older boat, there is a good chance they've been slowly corroding for decades and no one has ever inspected them. This isn't unique to the Catalina 27, but is a consideration.

The keel bolts issue you mentioned is something we found on our boat (a 1972). On the cabin floor there is a long board over the bilge well above the keel. Removing this board (very easy) reveals the bolts that are partially responsible for holding the keel on the boat. Water has a tendency to collect down there, so these bolts tend to rust significantly over time. Catalina recommends simply adding new bolts alongside these corroded ones, rather than removing the damaged bolts.

Ours have been badly corroded since we bought the boat, and we have not made the repair. We also have never seen any sign of the "Catalina smile", despite sailing the boat hard for several years and even running aground pretty firmly once. In other words, that keel (ours at least) is pretty solid. I've considered adding the new bolts, but the project has never made it to my short list of things to do. I don't know how much of a gamble this is, but my sense is that the boat would sail another 44 years without losing the keel. I've never heard of one coming off.

The things to look for are really just all of the things you'd look for on any older fiberglass boat. Pay particular attention to the state of the standing rigging. The fiberglass bits will pretty much last forever. These boats were over-engineered at the time, and really stand up well. But, standing rigging doesn't last forever, and repairs can be very costly. A surveyor that is well-versed in sailboats could help identify problems.

Another argument for getting a survey is that the surveyor will likely have that little device that measures moisture in the wood core of the deck. Finding a lot of moisture wouldn't necessarily be a deal-breaker, but it would affect the price.

We paid only $3500 for ours, but paid for a survey. As I recall, it was required for insurance, due to the age of the boat. So, that choice was easy.

Cheers,
Faris
Faris is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Faris For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-28-2016)
post #10 of 17 Old 04-27-2016
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 75
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Catalina 27

I have a 1977 with a 9.9 outboard in Seattle and it works pretty well. The only time I really felt underpowered was when we had 30+ knots on the nose and a long way to go.

The outboard pivots just fine on these boats (it is really on the transom, not in a well) which is great for docking etc. There is not a lot of room for an inboard (access would be terrible) and the place where it would be is great storage.

I second looking at the chainplates and keel. Would definitely recommend having it surveyed. I almost bought a different boat until the surveyor found evidence that the deck had been deformed enough to crack in a couple of places. Before you pay for a survey, see if you can find any soft spots in the deck from water intrusion. Look hard at the areas around the stanchions and the fresh water fill or holding tank pumpout port. That looks like it would be a pain in the butt to repair. Also look at the area under the compression post (make sure it is not sinking) and on the deck where the mast is stepped (should not be depressed). Figure you may have to do some rewiring on a boat that old (Catalina did not use the best/heaviest wire) so factor that into your offer.

These are nice sailing boats, very simple, and they do well in our light air. Good luck!
danvon is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to danvon For This Useful Post:
Soul2sail (04-28-2016)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1994 Catalina 320 vs 1992 Catalina 36 ChuckBuck Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 01-10-2012 10:42 AM
Catalina 30 Keel cracks (not Catalina Smile) Pelham Catalina 5 12-01-2009 11:39 AM
Catalina 309 & the Catalina Association Siamese General Discussion (sailing related) 4 07-24-2007 10:22 PM
catalina 34 Mark II or catalina 350 casey1004 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 06-13-2003 05:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome