SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Setting up a STORM TRYSAIL.

7K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  roverhi 
#1 ·
Just did Newport Bermuda (again) and it was not nearly as bad as forecast. One thing I found interesting was the boat I was on did not have a separate track to rig the storm Trysail like most boats. Instead it had a padeye up near the second spreader to which a high strength line (Dyneema) was luggage tagged to and then at the base of the mast the line was lashed very tightly so that the line was taut and tight as a miser. Idea being that the sail would be hanked on like you would a storm jib on the inner forestay.
Just wondering if anyone has ever done this and now did it work? Was there much sag away from the mast?
 
#2 ·
Have not done it, but am contemplating it.

With two reefs in the main, while we have a trysail we've never rigged it, as we just drop the rest of the main and use storm jib and mizzen, which has a reef from 75--> 50ft^2.

Having a trysail modified, so that I can set with the Main sail cover in place, is a powerful thing, and with a variable tack pennant, you could hoist it as appropriate to keep some sail up in the wind, while at the bottom of troughs.

S
 
#3 ·
I can see how hanking the luff to a "stay" attached to the mast could be less problem-prone than using a track for a storm trysail. K.I.S.S. Tracks can pull out, cars or sliders or lugs can jam. Hanks are pretty foolproof, and using them at the mast is better than bouncing around with them at the stem with a jib.
 
#4 ·
I wonder if the hanks might make a hell of a mess of the mast, with chafe and banging (if I am picturing the setup correctly). I wonder if some form of soft shackle could be used instead?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Food for thought ........

I would be very wary of using a 'line/wire' upon which one raises or lowers a try'sl.
The 'mathematics' involved would surely cause a great 'sag' of the support luff wire when the sail is under full outhaul load, plus wind load.

In addition to your suggested means of attachment of the trys'l rope/wire .... I would consider adding 'toggle-becket' straps, attached to the luff of try'sl and that completely pass 'around' the mast ....... removable 'straps' that would equate to the old-fashioned 'mast hoops' method of affixing a mainsail luff to an old-fashioned gaff rig .... at least along the mast below/lower than the first spreader set.

The ATN 'gale sale' (I think) uses such a toggle-becket strap arrangement around a furled jib (but is not exactly/clearly described on their website: ATN Sailing Equipment | The Gale Sail | Easy Handling Storm Jib) If Im correct, the gale Sail method (or equivalent) of attachment to a furled jib/genoa could be used to better connect a trysl to the mast, still use the 'wire/rope', .... at least for the portion of the trysl lower than the first spreader set where the luff sag will be the greatest.
 
#7 ·
Yeah, I was wondering how much sag there would be; could you actually sail to windward?
Fastening the trysail around the mast would not work; you couldn't raise it above the 1st spreader and most trysails (all?) are designed so that the head of the sail is somewhere between the 2 sets of spreaders or at least above the ONLY spreader.
I've used the Gale sail jib and it works great; you just want to rig it before the wind gets to the point where you have to have it!
 
#8 · (Edited)
A sagging luff is going to seriously affect the ability of forward motion/ pointing ability .... the suction peaks for "Bernoulli" are all at 'just behind/aft of the luff'


In my mind's eye the 'toggle-beckets' would only be used 'below' the first (lower) spreader set; a free-flying luff above the lower spreaders.
Above the first spreader, the luff would be 'free flying' and only attached to the 'line' attached to the mast; and would develop some sag in the luff above the first spreader set. Since the sail is 'triangular' and with a large foot, the 'distributed load' from the sail to the 'un-toggled to the mast' would be much less. The only problem is that the area of the trysail luff at the 'top-most' toggle-becket would have to be significantly reinforced (patch, etc.), as with luff sag, about this highest toggle-becket point ... that luff area is going be subject to a lot of undue stress/strain. Additional luff hollow could be cut into the luff that extends above the first spreader set to compensate for the expected sag in that portion of the luff.

Hope this is helpful in your decision making process.
 
#11 ·
Considering that a Trysail is generally carried somewhere well above 30 kts, it's not a sail that you would ever hoist above the spreaders, nor would you need to as there would be fully developed flow to sea level.

Nor are you generally concerned over much with windward efficiency, just that it provides a bit of drive to allow you to maintain a heading, typically a tight reach to let you steer waves and claw off a lee shore. You won't be beating at 45 TWA in waves.

Using hoops/sail ties to bind it to the mast is not unreasonable, and lashing the head to the mast once you have it hoisted makes a lot of sense, much as middle reef points are used to secure the belly of the sail to the boom, but the primary reefing strain is taken at the leech and luff.
 
#12 ·
Considering that a Trysail is generally carried somewhere well above 30 kts, it's not a sail that you would ever hoist above the spreaders, nor would you need to as there would be fully developed flow to sea level.
That depends on the boat. On my three spreader boat the first spreaders are not that high.

Nor are you generally concerned over much with windward efficiency, just that it provides a bit of drive to allow you to maintain a heading, typically a tight reach to let you steer waves and claw off a lee shore. You won't be beating at 45 TWA in waves.
Agree.

Using hoops/sail ties to bind it to the mast is not unreasonable, and lashing the head to the mast once you have it hoisted makes a lot of sense, much as middle reef points are used to secure the belly of the sail to the boom, but the primary reefing strain is taken at the leech and luff.
Don't agree. Sounds like a real mess in weather. Wet ties, wet sails, wet decks, wet crew -- the worst combination of slippery and high friction.
 
#16 ·
New Zealand CAT1 makes a track mandatory, along with the requirement to have SS slides. Dyneema is pretty strong no-stretch stuff but when the wind is blasting and everything in the rig is being hammered, how abrasion-resistant is it? I don't know, don't personally have any on my boat.

My trisail goes at least a meter past the first spreader.
 
#18 ·
The boat I am delivering at the moment has this set up. On top of the headboard attached by cord are 6 slugs with tape loops sitting in the mast track. It appears you hank on the storm sail, release the cord, attach the main halyard or in this case, a spare halyard and hoist away. Simple and effective.
 
#19 ·
Last boat had a separate track for the trisail. It went from the base of the mast so left the staysail hanked on in a bag. Just had to tie on the halyard, hoist and we were in business. Never deployed the sail in serious weather. Used it very successfully in ghosting conditions to stop rolling with leftover seas or motoring. The sail worked great for that as it didn't slat and bang like the main. A separate track is the only way I'd go unless there was no other way.

To do it with a wire would need a hell for stout upper attachment for the wire and a turnbuckle at the base to get needed tension. Definitely would want a tie rod to keep from lifting the deck on a keel stepped boat. You'd still get sag on the but hopefully not so much as to increase heeling forces because of sail shape.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Most people never need a trysl.

But if you do, you need to be able to set it very easily and quickly -- as easily and quickly as any sail change you might do while racing. Very few boats are rigged to do this, so they don't get used as often as they should.

Why trash your expensive main when its blowing past 25 or 30? Unless you are an 100% committed racer with unlimited funds for sails. A trys'l is cheap. Mains are expensive!

Usually, once its blowing 25 or 30, you just want to get things calmed down, more comfortable, safe. As mentioned by Dave on S/V Auspicious above, you really, really want to ensure you don't lose the ability to go to windward in a blow. Your windage increases by the square of wind speed: 30 knots is 4 times the windage as 15, so you flat out will never be able to point as high in 30 as you can in 15. Its impossible. But you sure want to be able to get upwind as well as you can.

Also, don't forget that big winds mean big seas. The reason you sheet a trys'l to the rail is so your boat will not tack by itself in the big and almost always confused seas of heavy air conditions.

A flat sail flying from a track on the back of the mast is less windage than a bare stick, and it stabilizes the rig. These are good reasons to have a trys'l that goes about 2/3 of the way up the mast. Also, a larger trys'l means you will actually use the dang thing, instead of destroying your main.

Using the arrangement seen (but obviously not used) by the original poster leads to a LOT more compression on the mast, which will de-stabilize the rig. It will lead to much higher windage, which will probably prevent making any way to windward. And the sail will be too full, and boy do you ever want a VERY flat trysail!!!

Having the trys'l on its own track, that goes down to near the deck well below the boom, AND having its own halyard, makes actually using a trys'l easy. Otherwise, its such a hassle you will never do it, and if you do, you will never do it again!

By having a dedicated trysl halyard and dedicated trysail track, you can first hoist the trys'l and THEN drop the main. And vice-versa when the wind drops again. This greatly reduces flogging, which is a significant danger to people and gear. And it makes the entire process quite easy.

Since the vast majority of time you don't need a trys'l, you can usually just leave a messenger led. When you might need a trys'l, then put the sail on the track and lead the halyard.

When do you need a trys'l?

If you race, you may well need one, simply because you have given up the ability to choose your weather (in other words, you are not acting in a seamanlike manner).

If you are not going very far, you can just choose your weather and avoid the gales. Even if you live in England.

If you are going on "the Milk Run" you won't use one.

You need a trys'l if you are going anywhere with a long heavy air beat. Examples include: Sailing from Southern California up to San Francisco or the Pacific Northwest; Sailing (not motoring) the Baja Bash; Sailing (you won't be able to motor) from Panama to anywhere in the Caribbean; Crossing the North Atlantic or other high latitude voyages.

Many people try to just motor around when the wind comes up (like motoring from Cabo to San Diego). However, motoring into big seas leads to all sorts of fuel problems, and causes lots of pain and suffering when the inevitable gunk in the bottom of the fuel tank clogs your filters and lines.

Sailing upwind with a well set up trys'l rig is easy, safe, and cheap. And fast, because you can still use your real main easily, and you won't destroy that thing so it will keep a good shape.
 
#21 ·
Weird to dig up this old random thread as your first post.

As long as it is up, I would state I like the KISS principle: a deep 3rd reef in a heavy main instead of a trysail. Simple, proven, and easier to deploy. It's no fun trying to put another sail on a track when the winds are over 30 (and the seas that go with it).
 
#22 ·
I have a 2nd track. On some dicey passages trysail is rigged on the track, in a ready bag. Ez to deploy. Don't thrash my main.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top