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So I got seasick today....

6K views 53 replies 22 participants last post by  jephotog 
#1 · (Edited)
So, I went out on friends Catalina 30 today on Lake Michigan. The forecast was for mild 10-15 knot winds and 2-4 foot waves. Well, it turned into 25 gusting to 32 with 4-7' waves with the occasional 10'er. We were on a beat to windward all day, and for the first time in 30 years I got really sick briefly. My question is does age increase ones susceptibility getting seasick? I am 51 btw. Otherwise, it was a great sail.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Of course it has something to do with age!

Why do old people fall over?

Alcohol in the nursing home? No!

I am amazed so few sailors have one iota of knowledge about seasickness except some drug they can shove down their throats.
Google them.

For someone who has never been seasick there are also some other age related things you probably won't find on Google.
30 years ago you were fit. Now you are probably on some medication... perhaps a statin. The side effects of these powerful drugs can be quite serious for elderly people.
 
#11 ·
You guys are killing me!! LOL! I do not feel old, well, let me rephrase that, I do not feel old often. Only my 8 year old daughter and her girlfriends call me old...maybe they are right...or half right.

Of course it has something to do with age!

Why do old people fall over?

I am amazed so few sailors have one iota of knowledge about seasickness except some drug they can shove down their throats.
Google them.

For someone who has never been seasick there are also some other age related things you probably won't find on Google.
30 years ago you were fit. Now you are probably on some medication... perhaps a statin. The side effects of these powerful drugs can be quite serious for elderly people.
I actually hate to take any medication, and don't. I would prefer to remedy the cause than to treat the manifestation of the causes naturally. I have always had low blood pressure, and know that carnival rides that spin a lot will always make me sick, so I just avoid them.

I've wondered the same thing. At 67 I seem to get seasick (about once a year) where I never did before. I would like to find some research that addresses this question.
Me too, I have not found anything in terms of a study on age and seasickness, my wife is more susceptible to it more than I, so I would like to be able to help her out as well.

I don't know if age directly makes you more susceptible, but it may cause other changes that do. For example, do you wear glasses or contacts? Have you changed prescriptions or moved to multi-focal lenses?

I mostly do not get sea sickness. But I am very susceptible to "simulator/video game sickness", which is entirely a visual thing (false visual motion cues that don't match felt motion.) I've recently started getting mild air sickness on long flights. I suspect it's due to switching from straight (prescription) reading glasses to progressive lenses.
I do wear glasses, and have a new prescription with bi-focals now. I do have to admit that I now drink coffee where I did not previously. I have heard that coffee can make mal du mer more pronounced, or a possibility. I have never had to use any drugs for seasickness, but now I might have to give ginger a try. Mary Jane is not a possibility, although I have heard it works.. :)

Does anyone have any other suggestions for something natural that I could try?? Personal experience is a plus..
 
#4 ·
I get seasick less often now. Age 69.
 
#7 ·
I'm pretty good with seasickness, but I have been seasick many times, I sailed commercially for 20 years and I have observed all kinds of factors contribute. The worst factor for me is fatigue. If I've been up for a couple or 3 days with little to no sleep fighting adverse weather, I find seasickness eventually will work it's way just like mosquitoes, given time will find a crack to get into.

I have also observed pregnant women are highly susceptible, older people can be more susceptible. Hung over people are easy targets. Fear and uncertainty can be major contributing factors.

Sea state is a big factor too. The conditions you describe sound pretty bad for a small boat. Maybe age was one of several factors?

My worst seasickness was a long Search and Rescue operation I participated in. We were a small crew on an aluminum vessel on Lake Huron searching for a 12 year old boy who was blown offshore in a 12' boat with only a swim suit on.

I was very tired, I was cold, I definitely felt some anxiety about the boys welfare. The sea state was not bad, maybe a meter, but you couldn't see them coming in the dark. Also I was using night vision goggles, which always give me a headache.

On the second night of this, I felt so rotten I asked the permission of the Captain to go below for a nap, which he agreed to. I slept for a few hours and felt much much better.

The boy was found safe and sound, although very cold and uncomfortable.

I think it's good you are analyzing causation, it will help you to combat it in the future.

Another bad one was on a chemical tanker in the northern Atlantic, battling what would have been a survival storm for a yacht. Our ship was Hove too and taking it very well, I had ample sleep. It lasted a few days, again, I think a big factor was anxiety. Even Hove too big waves were crashing over the focsal, sweeping the full length of about 300 ft of deck and slamming into the base of the accommodations with rather frightening effect. In that storm I think the only major factor was fear, which in hind sight was probably unwarranted, but felt very real at the time.
 
#8 ·
I don't know if age directly makes you more susceptible, but it may cause other changes that do. For example, do you wear glasses or contacts? Have you changed prescriptions or moved to multi-focal lenses?

I mostly do not get sea sickness. But I am very susceptible to "simulator/video game sickness", which is entirely a visual thing (false visual motion cues that don't match felt motion.) I've recently started getting mild air sickness on long flights. I suspect it's due to switching from straight (prescription) reading glasses to progressive lenses.
 
#10 ·
It also has to do with the condition of your ears and semi circular canals... You will slowly imperceptibly loose your sense of balance as you age and this can assist in bringing on mal du mer. Those conditions would probably make a lot of people seasick.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I do NOT usually get motion sickness. But I also need to sail a bit to get my "sea legs". Doesn't take much but I do have to adjust to being on a boat. Once that happens I don't have much problem unless it's really a nasty bumpy ride for a few hrs. My step daughter claims if she steps on the boat at dock she get seasick... go figure. I don't do drugs... wife sometimes uses sea bands... Her sea sickness was pretty regular and she refused to go below when underway. Now she will and doesn't complain about sea sickness but she doesn't like when we heel more than a few degrees. Using her as an example... it was simply repeated exposure to being on the boat and sailing which allowed her to adjust. And that confirms my own experience although I am no where near where she is with queasiness.
 
#13 ·
Age is not a factor except those below 2years are immune and children have increased risk up to age 15. Loss of otlithic function if symmetrical decreases risk. Those with dysfunction of cerebellar roof nuclei are at increased risk as are those with vestibular dysfunction whether peripheral or central. Women have increased risk especially if pregnant or around period. H/o migraine increases risk.

Above is evidence based. Don't have citations readily available but you could search to find them.

Everyone, yes everyone, with a vestibular system can get motion sick. Just takes right set of stimuli. I ask folks to take something the day before and first two days of passage. I ask that a week before they try it to R/O side effects.
 
#17 ·
I always get sea sick. Somewhere between 23 and 25 hours out I will be puking my guts out over the rail for about an hour. Then I feel fine. I used to worry about it, but this type of sea sickness is apparently common. Even the great Ellen McArthur suffered from it.
 
#14 ·
Habituation is so common that some sailors intentionally make themselves sick with the thought they will then have decreased risk. Unfortunately this is not the same as habituation which occurs best with gradual constant stimulation. Hence for motion sickness most will habituate in 2-3 d. This is the rationale for pretreatment and continuing it for the first few days of passage.
I once was on a very difficult passage. Was sick for ~2h then cleared. But after >a week of rough conditions was land sick for 3 days. The land sickness was worse than the seasickness by orders of magnitude.
 
#15 ·
Ginger is of benefit. There is evidence to support its use. Of interest many antibiotic, HTN drugs, antidepressants increase risk as do hormones. Smell, hence taste, stomach acidity/reflux, fatigue and stress may increase risk in some. Recent change in vision or corrective lenses are as well. Triggers are quite individual. Have a no coffee friend and another who will get sick if caffeine withdrawing.
 
#16 ·
Disappointed in much modern sailboat design. No thought to seasickness. Forward facing nav stations near the rotational axis of the boat are important even if you are a screen navigator. Reading is a common trigger. Think about needing to read that manual while under way. Our largest screen is at the nav station for that reason. Best berth for a seasick sailor is amidships. Think about the current three stateroom layout with the forward stateroom worthless underway. A snug berth, ideally near center of the boat and low down, allowing a good sleep will "cure" many.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I know this thread is about sea sickness, but what I noticed straight away is that you are surprised by the wave height based on the predictions.

Wave forecasts are giving you the average wave height predicted, so you should expect to see 8 ft waves with a 2-4 ft prediction. Also, when reading wave height, one also needs to take into consideration the time between swells.

I should not comment on Lake Michigan, I do understand there are some tidal and current effects, but I don't really understand how much, how regular or how often. However, understanding the effects of wind on waves based on current and tide is very important, as is factoring in the time between swells.

OK, so now I got myself going... I see that the great lakes could see currents in excess of .5 knots! Interesting stuff.

https://www.glerl.noaa.gov//res/glcfs/currents/glcfs-currents-avg.html

As a fair weather sailor, in my area, I have learned that 2-4 is the maximum I will plan to go out in. 3-5 is something I will consider, but a final decision is based upon seeing the actual conditions. 2-4 with 10 - 15 can make for a great day of sailing or absolute crap, depending on wind vs. current and wave period. I also know the crazy currents prediction in my area so I can choose a direction to day sail based on what the current and wind forecast will be in a few hours. It's not always spot on, but I'm not dealing with survival conditions either, it just gets uncomfortable. It also depends greatly on WHO is sailing with me. Taking the boss and his wife out for an afternoon or going out with your sailing buddies are two entirely different types of days. :)
 
#22 ·
I know this thread is about sea sickness, but what I noticed straight away is that you are surprised by the wave height based on the predictions.

Wave forecasts are giving you the average wave height predicted, so you should expect to see 8 ft waves with a 2-4 ft prediction. Also, when reading wave height, one also needs to take into consideration the time between swells.

I should not comment on Lake Michigan, I do understand there are some tidal and current effects, but I don't really understand how much, how regular or how often. However, understanding the effects of wind on waves based on current and tide is very important, as is factoring in the time between swells. :)
To be honest I was surprised at how wrong the predictions were. We checked as we left the dock one last time in the morning as we headed out, and still wrong on several sites. The waves were on average 6' with the 10'er rolling in at 2.5-3 second intervals. I am fine with that part. Just the fact I got sick is what got me. It's been a long time since that happened.
 
#25 ·
Most find wave height is important but period and wind waves on top of the swells is as important if not more so. There are two groups as regards seasickness according to studies funded by our military. Those sensitive to low frequency occultations and those more sensitive to high frequency.
So some will tolerate huge regular swells with no difficulty but a confused sea, a steep chop, or the sudden motions of an ultra light or performance CF multi will incapacitate them. Others have no issue in small boats but the roll of a ship is their bane.
Most find motion in a single axis more tolerable. When I see people turning green not knowing their wiring find if I go to ~60* to be quite helpful. The corkscrewing of a broad reach and the quick hard pounding of a close haul are pukeogenic so avoided when possible.
Think knowing your sensitivity to be quite helpful in boat selection. Those sensitive to high frequency should avoid performance cats and tris as well as light beamy monos. Those sensitive to low frequency may fare poorly on traditional heavy full keel boats.
 
#27 ·
Spending today dragging out safety stuff ( storm jib, JSD etc.) making sure it's in good shape and deployable. Cruiser friends stopped by. We chatted about boats not floating as well in the Great Lakes but also about waves. They are uppers and sail from here to the islands now but in the past mostly on Michigan. They say there's no d-mn difference. It's totally bogus to say waves on the Great Lakes or how boats respond to them is any different. Variance in viscosity is so small as to not matter. Wave no different off shore in the ocean or the lakes once depth sufficient. Totally bogus to say there's any difference.
 
#29 ·
I helped someone sail his boat from Nantuket to Portsmouth NH this week. We left Thursday afternoon and into the Pollock Rip which was flowing into 5 foot seas. Pretty bouncy. I was fine until I had to shimmy up the mast a bit to deal with a small rip in the main and then out on the boom when the sail got caught in the boom furler. I think it was the exaggerated motion while hanging onto the mast, plus focusing my eyes on a small area where my brain could not detect any movement that got me sick when I came down. One theory for the cause of seasickness is that the inner ear detects motion that the eyes don't see. So the brain assumes there is poison in your body and tries to expel it. When you look at the horizon your eyes confirm what your inner ear feels, thus assuaging the brain. Anyway, I tried to hold it back, then succumbed to 3 or 4 violent, thankfully dry, heaves. I then focused on the horizon for a bit and an hour or so later felt better. That night we had an incredibly rolly ride and I felt great.
 
#36 ·
That's a good explanation for sea sickness. Earlier on I had balance/Vertigo issues from an inner ear problem of some sort and I'm more sure footed on a boat than on dry land most days. Go figure. I did get seasick one time after smoking a Cigar so I don't smoke and boat anymore.
 
#31 ·
Actually motion sickness is a bit more complicated. Blind people can get it. But sensory input is weighted. We are strongly visual but retain the complex vestibular wiring of our tree swinging antecedents. When there's a conflict in input you're more likely to be sick. Inputs include ( but not limited to) proprioception, vestibular and visual. Hence tactics that put one out of the running help. Normally your eyes track then saccade when you are moving. Otherwise you would feel the world bounce up and down when you walk or not be able to grab a moving object if moving. You are blind during the saccades. Finding a non moving object at distance and stare mitigates this effect. Standing while holding onto something on the boat while moving your torso to keep your head non moving and level helps. There's a whole bunch of input from your neck involved in balance and proprioception that then is more in harmony with visual and vestibular input.
Interestingly reading is one of the worse things you can do. Followed by going into the head to puke. Ask people harness, to be safe, then puke to leeward. If they go below its to lie down period.
Decreasing sensory input helps as well. Lying down and relaxing decreases input from many systems. Especially good in center of the boat.
 
#33 ·
Interesting thread.

Contacts vs. glasses stood out to me. I changed from wearing contacts to wearing only glasses last winter and I don't remember being sea sick wearing glasses. Not even a twinge.

One of my worst episodes was sailing the day after eating hot wings and downing a swimming pool-sized margarita the night before. I don't think I'm tempted to see if I can recreate that now that I wear glasses.
 
#34 ·
How much does diet effect getting sick? I remember having cotton mouth, and not eating or drinking much for around 4-5 hours, more out of fear of going below...

What foods should I stay away from, besides apparently hot wings and pool sized drinks...LOL..thanks for that one Donna??
 
#35 ·
Excess stomach acid can make one feel quesey. A quick efficient vomit can help it to go away. Getting old (73next month) also feeds the quick motion onset of sea sickness, especially down below when it is hot and choppy. So, what is the temperature aspect? Age seems to be connected with balance issues, like I no longer just jump up from laying on the couch; sit first, then stand. Some of it surely is blood pressure related, having to do with blood vessel ability to handle surges. But what about the ears? I can't imagine being down below staring at a screen to navigate when it is choppy and bouncing around. I guess everyone's milage will vary on thus one.
 
#37 ·
I did the Harvest Moon Regatta in 2010 on this Pacific Seacraft, "Rhapsody". The owner, his British friend and I were the three oldest aboard and we didn't get seasick. The three other crew were much younger, and all went down sick early on.



I have been deep sea fishing on the Gulf of Mexico for many years. Plenty of people of all ages get sick on those charters. My son got sick the first time I took him out. My wife has suffered from motion sickness since childhood, but gets by with Sea-Band (wrist bands) these days.

Either you are prone to seasickness or you are not....I'll believe that until the day I get seasick.

Ralph
 
#39 · (Edited)
Yes as stated in above post " boats don't float as well" so load lines are different. Simple physics due to change in density. But the difference in viscosity is so marginal that wave behavior is the same.
Yes any unilateral vestibular pathology will increase risk.
Smell is a common trigger as are a multiplicity of drugs so the cigar well may be a trigger.
Yes people's thresholds are different and for some quite high but given the right set of circumstances everyone can get sick. The prior posts outline some of the common reasons for increased risk. From what I understand there is early work outlining the genetics of risk as well.

Given puking in a space suit or a hard hat diving can ruin your whole day as can having a warships crew down for the count can make you dead so there is a literature concerning this subject. The brain stem wiring concerning this is in large measure worked out. I've just been citing my membrance of prior reading of some of those studies. I'm unaware of studies demonstrating risk diminishing in senescence. It may not have been studied given it has little concern to likely funding agencies e.g. military. It makes sense as neurons die otolithic sensitivity would decrease but don't recall a citation to that effect. Do recall citation stating during adulthood before senescence risk is flat. Eighth cranial nerve has two divisions - auditory and vestibular. One would expect decreased neural density in advanced age in this nerve. Hence, even with intact peripheral vestibular function one could suppose the gain of the system to be decreased.
 
#42 ·
Given puking in a space suit or a hard hat diving can ruin your whole day as can having a warships crew down for the count can make you dead so there is a literature concerning this subject.
There was a seminal piece done by the US Navy focused on the operational forces (so it was written with words of few syllables *grin*) in the late 70s. It was a review and statistical analysis of a lot of previous work if I recall correctly (I no longer have a copy - too much housecleaning). It showed three principal factors: frequency, amplitude, and spectrum. People have some frequency of motion to which they are most sensitive. The degree of sensitivity also varies from person to person. The extent to which people are sensitive off their particular frequency also varies.

This is why there are people who don't seem prone to motion sickness at all, others who get car sick but not sea sick, and some who are very sensitive to motion of any kind.

Not in the study but just from my empirical experience hydration is indeed a very important factor.

I have also observed psychological factors e.g. being out of sight of land.

I have been sea sick twice in my life. I don't recommend it. Fortunately both were in fairly benign conditions (which goes to the cited frequency sensitivity parameter). I have also had the flu while underway which while unpleasant was not as bad as being sea sick.

I am not sure a roughly 2.5% in water density is negligible.
That depends on what you are considering. Certainly static stability is a factor (see http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/53/113953-004-8CD56C34.gif ) and note you can load a ship more heavily in fresh water. I don't remember any concern about dynamics at Webb about fresh v. salt water.

On an empirical basis, running from Newport to Annapolis (salt to brackish to fresh to brackish) or Annapolis to Norfolk (brackish to salt) I can't say I've detected any change in dynamics.
 
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