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Advice on Reefing

3K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  Giulietta 
#1 ·
I chartered a Beneteau 320 last week. It was blowing 35+ knots.

I put one reef in the main and 1/3 of the headsail up on the furler.

The boat felt very balanced at no stage did I round up and the weather helm was never too much. If anything I was probably underpowered but as I was taking my family out for the first time this felt very comfortable.

I have done a lot of costal and inshore racing in these conditions (although never as the helmsman) so I was no stranger to these conditions. However this was the first time I've ever used a furler. I found that reducing my Genoa area resulted in an inability to point as close. I assume this is due to the change in sail shape.

Throughout the afternoon we saw many other yachts and most (if not all of them) had either completely lowered the main or completely lowered the Genoa.

Under what conditions or even types of boats would you only sail on the Genoa or only sail on the main? And does this put uneven stresses on the rig? I would of thought that not balancing the rig would possibly be worse for it.

I guess I am trying to understand the best option as while racing we have always put up a smaller Genoa and then reefed the main.

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
Hi, I am convinced like you that one should try to keep both sails up, as this is the only way you can sail properly a boat to the wind. Nevertheless I saw several weekenders in New England sailing under mainsail only and parading like this with a can of beer in the left and the wheel in the right. That's another story. Sure the best school for handling and trimming a sailing boat is racing like you do. But then if you are slightly lazy that day and do not have to go to the wind, going under genoa alone will not really kill your rigging.
best regards
 
#4 ·
In these days of ubiquitous roller furled headsails, it's increasingly common to see boats sailing headsails only. I think this is mainly due to, as Pigslo points out, the "ease" of doing so.

There are a lot of long "J" masthead boats that actually balance up not too bad in this configuration, even on the wind. In flat water, if there is no lee helm problem, I suppose that doing so is fine. (Whether it's "proper" is a matter of opinion.)

I've always found the boat to be easier to drive with a properly balanced combo of the right sized headsail and reefed main if necessary.

Where headsail-only has run into problems, I'm told, is in windier areas like the eastern Caribbean where there can be substantial seas. The forces on the mast in the absence of support from the luff of a properly set mainsal has caused several mast failures among the charter fleets there. (where headsail only sailing is common)

rbs's lack of pointing was definitely due to the poor sailshape and the inefficiency of the rolled up luff on the headsail.

We're one of the few around with hanked on headsails, and despite the inconvenience, it's often nice to have the right sail up there rather than a rolled up imitation. - And some days its a good workout changing jibs!
 
#5 ·
I've sailed in the Eastern Caribbean for the past 37 years, on a variety of boats. My own 42' Perry-designed sloop was based there for 11 years.

Over this period, I've seen just about every kind of wind condition imaginable, from zero wind to five (count 'em, five) major hurricanes with winds over 100 knots in the marina.

One thing I learned early on about going to windward: the easy way to do it and, by the way, a VERY efficient way is with a headsail only. On some boats, if there's not much wind, the engine ticking over can help a bit.

But, in a Pearson 10M with just a headsail and a cockpit awning I once beat the pants off a Gulfstar 50 with a professional crew under full sail beating to windward toward North Sound.

Lesson one: a properly designed boat will sail to windward VERY well with just a headsail.

Lesson two: the same is NOT true of just a mainsail. Try it yourself. Most boats under mainsail alone will hardly move at all to windward. It's a great way to tack up to a mooring ball in a crowded anchorage, but hardly the way anyone would choose if they really wanted to sail to windward.

Lesson three: often, and depending on the boat and prevailing conditions, the addition of a mainsail won't make much difference at all. Many times, you're better off just using the headsail.

Re: losing your mast, it's my strong opinion that NO properly designed sailboat should feel its mast is in peril because it's only flying a headsail. Or a stormsail. Or any other sail. If the mast is properly stayed, it should support any sail combo you put up.

Yes, I've seen dismasted boats. Once, I saw three of them....Hunters all...dismasted outside Road Town in a blow. But, these are silly designs with NO BACKSTAY. Don't get me started on these abominable boats :))

rbs, if you were sailing a Bendy Toy 32 in 35+ knots of wind with just a single-reefed main and a slightly furled genoa, hats off to ya! I would have imagined that for those conditions you were either WAY over canvassed or were running downwind. Could it have been blowing, maybe, 25 knots?

Bill
 
#6 ·
I think it depends pretty significantly on the type of boat. My "old" boat used to sail very nicely with just the Genoa unfurled. She didn't point quite as well, obviously, but for a day sail with the family or hopping from one harbor to the next performance was pretty good. All that being said, my current boat WILL NOT sail under genny alone except near dead down wind. (even if I pull down the big genny and bend on the #3) If I put up a scrap of main or mizzen she balances and sails pretty well, but not much better than my "old" boat w/genny alone!
 
#7 ·
T34C,

"my current boat WILL NOT sail under genny alone except near dead down wind. (even if I pull down the big genny and bend on the #3)"

Yes, of course, not all boats perform alike. The Tartan 34C, though, is a well-balanced S&S design that sails pretty well for a 60s design.

You should be able to do much better than "near dead down wind" with just a genoa. Certainly, you should be able to reach well. Have you tried playing with the centerboard position? The genoa block position?

Which boom do you have? There were at least three lengths furnished with this boat, the shorter ones to meet the IOR rule constraints.

Bill
 
#8 ·
Short 10' 5" boom. I have tried board up/down, everything but sideways. With just the genny (110%) she has way too much lee helm to point much at all. The DDW may be over stating it as most of the times I have tried have been with wind at 20+ and at least 3-4 ft. swell. Duing those times I was trying to keep the waves off the beam (and beam reaching would not get me where I was needing to go.)

I'm a big cheerleader on the "well-balanced S&S design" concept, but I can tell you that with just the genny she doesn't balance near as well as the Newport 30 I used to sail.
 
#9 ·
btrayfors said:
Re: losing your mast, it's my strong opinion that NO properly designed sailboat should feel its mast is in peril because it's only flying a headsail. Or a stormsail. Or any other sail. If the mast is properly stayed, it should support any sail combo you put up.

Yes, I've seen dismasted boats. Once, I saw three of them....Hunters all...dismasted outside Road Town in a blow. But, these are silly designs with NO BACKSTAY. Don't get me started on these abominable boats :))
Bill - good points all round, and the dismastings I was referring to were Hunters - you're right - but I didn't want to start another round of Hunter bashing.... there are enough fights being picked here as it is!
 
#10 ·
My Bristol 35.5 goes great to weather with just the 120 jib. Balance is great, too. T34C, I wonder if a 110 does not have quite enough sail far enough aft to give you the balance and drive. I would also say what you already know - the age and shape of your 110 will have huge impact. Another poster lectured me that if I continued to fly my 120 in 25 knots, I would shorten the life of the sail. I will take that deal.

Larry
 
#11 · (Edited)
I sometimes sail on mainsail alone, or on jib alone, just because it's hot or I'm tired, or the wind is blowing hard and I'm singlehanding and it's just plain easier. To me, those are adequate reasons for doing it. I don't care what other people think, because it's my boat, and I'm 65, and I can do it if I want. But, when you really need the boat to perform, like when racing, or when the weather starts to get seriously challenging, there's no substitute for having a balanced sailplan, with main and jib flying.

Sailing under jib alone is OK, as long as you're going in the same direction for a long way, and especially if you don't have to sail hard on the wind, but it's not so good when you have to tack. The boat won't point as well under jib alone, and, when you tack with only a jib flying, you have to make every tack perfectly, because, if the sail gets snagged on the rigging and you lose too much speed, the jib wants to pull the bow off the wind, and it's hard to get going to windward again. If you're singlehanding, it's only a matter of time before you blow a tack, and when that happens you'll suffer major frustration. So, use whatever sails are convenient at the time, but remember that, when storm clouds are building, get up a balanced sail plan.
 
#12 ·
Lots of opinion not equal to lots of facts

Interesting comments, some of which are dubious at best.
It's important to first understand that some generalities (not wise) have been made based upon lots of false assumptions, the most glaring of which is the rig. Clearly, some folks are basing their view on a simple masthead rigged sloop. Not always the case.
The orginal question didn't mention what rig; only mentioned a specific charter boat.

On our racing sloop with fractional rig and runners, the answer is alot different than our cruising boat which is fractional and again, the answer would depend on whether the rig is a masthead/big jib boat, fractional w/ small jib, cutter rigged, etc.

For example, one generality someone made ("Most boats under mainsail alone will hardly move") is incorrect if one is referring to a fractional rig with small jib.

Hopefully there are those who might take this as it's intended, i.e., constructive. To those who amy not, it's just a friendly reminder that it would help those asking questions to get good, correct and factual feedback.
 
#13 ·
I thought all the posts were clear that they spoke of boats they owned and the Bene, like most boats today, is masthead. To respond to the original question ( and I did not - sorry), I think Sailormon6 came closest to the "right" answer. I can tack my boat easily with just headsail, but sailing with just the jib leaves me no options. If the wind increases, I cannot partially furl the jib and still enjoy the balance and power (tried it). I would have to hoist and reef (unless I put the reef in earlier) the main. Waiting to do this in building seas and winds is poor seamanship so Sailormon6's statement to have a balanced sail plan early (for your specific boat) is correct. I, like others, was sailing lazy but knowing what my boat will do with different combinations is also part of the learning process. I was really surprised how well the boat went and my prior thinking would have made me doubt that I could point as high and sail as fast as other boats around me who were sailing with the conventional partially furled jib and one or 2 reefs in. Live and learn. There is never just one answer.
 
#14 ·
Roller Furling s the culprit

I am very much in the minority, but I have never believed in roller furling head sails. Although I mostly cruise, I like to put the right sail fup or the job. Four weeks ago, winds were out of the north 25-30. We put up the storm (working) jib (70%) and a double reef in the main. The boat was well balanced and we were doing 6.5 knots to windward in my old Chris Craft Apache 37 sloop. I would not have been able to configure the boat for this trip with roller furling without taking the whole thing apart. On extra light days, I can put up the 155 tri-radial geona a pass everyone else on the bay flying their 130 furler. Agreed that the roller furler makes it easier to raise and lower sail, but it just is not that much more to drop the jib and bag it when your done. There are also many techniques you can use to drop a big sail if you're over-powered...."hove to" for one.

The fun of looking at the forecast and guessing what you might need to fit the sail configuration is part of sailing. I bought a good autopilot instead of roller furling...which gives me everything I need to go forward when need be.

To be out sailing with just main or jib...might as well start the engine as far as I'm concerned.
 
#15 ·
The original question was framed with reference to a Beneteau 320, which I believe has a masthead rig. That being so, the poster was probably referring to a masthead rig when he correctly wrote "Most boats under mainsail alone will hardly move."

Also, we all focused on the part of the original question pertaining to sailing on the jib alone, but rbs also asked when we would sail on the mainsail alone. One time when it's good to sail on mainsail alone is when you're sailing in a confined area, and you need good maneuverability and slow speed. That might be when you are sailing to a mooring or to your slip. On a masthead rig, the jib generates power and speed, and that's just what you don't want in such a situation. The mainsail alone keeps the speed down, and you can control your speed even if you are hit by a strong gust. If you have to tack, the mainsail is self tending. You don't have to worry about the jib getting snagged in the rigging. If you need to point, you can do so with a mainsail. If you want to reduce your sail area, you can just drop most of the mainsail on the coach roof, leaving only a small triangle up the mast to drive the boat slowly to windward. If you're approaching from upwind of your destination, you can drop the mainsail completely and sail the rest of the way under bare pole. In short, you can use the mainsail to do very slow, careful maneuvering.
 
#16 ·
mgiguere, I was just curious how many times you've used a roller furler? (sorry for being off topic). I find I can unroll, drop a sail, hoist a new one single handed much easier using a roller furler with a foil on the forestay, than messing with a hanked-on jib. I was an "old school hanked on jib til the end" beleiver until I bought a boat with a roller already installed. I just find the ease of use and flexibility it allows blows the "old school" out of the water.
 
#17 ·
Usually crew racing doesn't bring much of a help for us cruisers, but we can't say the same about single hand races around the world. The Globe Challenge, or Around Alone or whatever you wanna call it are those that really helped in the developments of our quieter cruisers. They are the one who perfectioned self steering systems, electric autopilots, cruising spinnakers,furling sails and all these big and little inventions that make us possible to handle bigger and bigger boats alone or with our partner. Even the giant catamarans and trimarans that beat all the possible world records with crew are using some furling systems. People go around the world or to Antarctica or wherever you imagine with furling sails. Preaching against is a matter of religion, obscurantism,or a question of money (you buy a boat with five jibs and no furling system...well you use and enjoy what you have). As long as one sails in protected waters, one can spit on furling systems, but offshore when the weather is really bad and you have to fight with a genoa or a jib and then hank on a stormjib while beeing submerged by the swell on the foredeck and trying to keep onboard the sail you just put down...then you remember how easyer and safer you would be with your furling system. How many times did I get in trouble with my classic mainsail downwind because taking a reef was almost impossible without rounding into the wind against the increasing breakers? Well, with a in-mast reefing system (and a mainsail in decent shape) it would have been only a question of a dozen of seconds from the cockpit. We like sailing as a pure sport when we sail the week end for club racing or for the pleasure, but when you are cruising offshore for extended periods or thousands of miles, you don't want to steer, you don't want to struggle on the foredeck for changing the jib in the middle of the damned night squall that awakes you. Comfort is safety, when you are on a long run. If you think that your furling system can fail (and I do), you just have to keep a second stay where you an hank on jibs or stormjibs, or just pole out another jib while running downwind.
Sorry I went a little out of subject...
Considering the question of one or two sails, the fact that a boat goes well to the wind under jib without maisail, usually means that anyway it would go better with both mainsail and jib .It is obvious that in flat waters you can tack under genoa only but then try in a 10 ft swell and see how your full genoa is burying the bow in the sea, while if you put the mainsail and reduce your genoa the bow will be much lighter and pass easily over the swell. But then if you like to sail with just one sail why not try a cat-boat rig or a junk rig? They are easy, cheap (at least the junk rig...) and extremely easy to handle and reef...
 
#18 ·
mgiguere said:
I am very much in the minority, but I have never believed in roller furling head sails. Although I mostly cruise, I like to put the right sail fup or the job. Four weeks ago, winds were out of the north 25-30. We put up the storm (working) jib (70%) and a double reef in the main. The boat was well balanced and we were doing 6.5 knots to windward in my old Chris Craft Apache 37 sloop. I would not have been able to configure the boat for this trip with roller furling without taking the whole thing apart. On extra light days, I can put up the 155 tri-radial geona a pass everyone else on the bay flying their 130 furler. Agreed that the roller furler makes it easier to raise and lower sail, but it just is not that much more to drop the jib and bag it when your done. There are also many techniques you can use to drop a big sail if you're over-powered...."hove to" for one.

The fun of looking at the forecast and guessing what you might need to fit the sail configuration is part of sailing. I bought a good autopilot instead of roller furling...which gives me everything I need to go forward when need be.

To be out sailing with just main or jib...might as well start the engine as far as I'm concerned.
I have 3 different head sails, and a furler, I can use all of them on the stay track (one at a time of course) and furl 2 of them, if I want to.
 
#20 ·
Well, 2 of the genoas are for racing (one is batten), the 3rd is just a standard genoa, that I use for cruising, practice, and ferry, to save the other two, as they are more costly.

But this was just to say that if you have the furler (the right one) you can have the best of all worlds, you can furl and you can lower as mgiguere stated.
 
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