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"Only race boats need a traveler"...

8K views 54 replies 20 participants last post by  Lazerbrains 
#1 ·
Or so I was told by a sales rep at the boat show this past weekend, while looking at a new model 41' sailboat.
It was hard not to laugh.

Same rep also told me that pressboard was a better material than ply for bulkheads. Yikes.


Just amazed at these statements can be said with a straight face.
 
#2 ·
I suppose one could easily cruise without a traveler, but they are certainly not solely for racing.

I actually had a Jeaneau sales guy tell me the teak pressboard stuff was superior to solid or laminate teak board, as they paint the grain on the pressboard and can exactly match any replacement part. :puke:
 
#3 ·
Even race boats don't need a traveler. are they nice to have yes but do you need one to sail, NO.
Plywood is a terrible material to make bulkheads with. it was used in many boats over the years because it was cheap and already had the finished wood attached so it saved money for the builder.
there are some new epoxy press boards used in boat building that is a good material. does not wick water like plywood and is very strong or at least strong enough to do the job.
Some people are stuck in the 60's when it comes to new materials and can't see the advantages in the new. manufactures are always looking for materials that are better to manufacture a product with to keep cost down and still works as required.
 
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#4 ·
The only advantage to pressboard is that it is cheap to manufacture. It is the wood equivalent of chopped fiberglass.

And who needs twist in their sails? I guess less control is better? Or more likely, it saves the manufacturer a few bucks to leave it out......
 
#5 ·
back a few years and boat builders used plywood because it was cheap to manufacture and many said it would not work for the job. they said that about chopped fiberglass also and yet it has made it around the world.
I have raced on many older boats a few years ago that did not have travelers and we used many different strings to control the sail shape. sail twist can be controlled in many ways if you do not have a traveler. the double sheet system works well on may large cruising boats as it holds the boom in position better in big seas then a traveler. and it is not in the way in the cockpit. having a traveler crossing near the crew is not the safest thing on a boat.
 
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#7 ·
Technically you don't need sails either on a sailboat, but you know, they help.

Every sail control has a purpose, not every one is necessary. A traveler is a convenience to help with angle of attack, sure you can use a mainsheet, or a vang to get angle of attack, but it isn't a pure control for angle of attack, you lose twist while you adjust angle of attack...

Just like you don't all need continuously adjustable genoa cars.... but boy it sure it nice to granularly control angle of attack AND twist for the genoa.

This is another one of those my way is right everyone else's is wrong threads....

Personally I love to have end boom sheeting, a Vang, a cunningham, outhaul, mainsheet, genoa tracks, and adjustable genoa cars, and halyards, not to mention an adjustable backstay, and jib cunny (would love to set one up). OH and I love my boomkicker (rigid vang works too).

Sail controls (and more of them) - bring them on. I'll decide which ones I don't use.

Oh and to me, it's killer to have the traveler RIGHT next to me where I can reach it... and dang blast the morons who designed all my OD boats and put the winches out of my reach (yeah I solo sail a lot). Moving my winches back is on my list, actually I'd be moving the traveler forward if it wouldn't ruin OD configuration.
 
#10 ·
I don't have a traveller on my cruiser, I have a system of double blocks fixed on pivots outboard to either side, that my main sheet is run through. It functions much like a traveller, I think it trims the sails okay, but it's a bit more work.

One plus i can see with the main sheet running through it 8 timed is its a fantastic shock absorber for hard gybes.

The system keeps the lead to the main sheet vertical through maybe 30-40* (estimate, havent measured).

It works okay, I would actually be a little bit worried about shock loads on a traveller, single handing with such a big rig. My mast is 57 feet.

I do think Lazerbrains is right, if it's just a single block for the main sheet, it's probably a cost saving measure, as are the particle board bulkheads.
 
#11 ·
The reasons a cruiser should want a traveler:

1. It is a great shock absorber on jibes.
2. When short handed, it is physically easier to play the traveler than the mainsheet.
3. Less stress on the rig than when completely reliant on the vang.
 
#12 ·
I agree a traveller is much easier to work with short-handed than a double block. I am not clear on why it's a better shock absorber. Could you expand on the physics of this?

I was recently touring General George S Patton's former yacht, "When and If" it had a very cool, no traveller system that in addition to the blocks actually had a large spring/shock absorber.
 
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#16 ·
I am still not following this traveller= better shock absorber logic.

My main sheet starts at my boom, leads to a block on the starboard side of my after coachouse and back twice, then to block on the port side of my coach house twice then forward to my cockpit for single handing, creating an inverted V. The boom angle is controlled in the same fashion as a union purchase.

I think whichever system has the greatest length of line to spring has the greatest shock absorption.
 
#18 ·
Or so I was told by a sales rep at the boat show this past weekend, while looking at a new model 41' sailboat.
It was hard not to laugh.

Same rep also told me that pressboard was a better material than ply for bulkheads. Yikes.

Just amazed at these statements can be said with a straight face.
Because he can't say:

The boat is under equipped, poorly built and costs more than it ever did. :wink
 
#31 ·
This is the gist of buying a new boat right here. When you buy a new boat, you are not buying a world cruising boat nor a racer, but a middle-of-the-road boat that is made so it can be marketed to the largest number of people at a price that still earns the builder a profit and be sold in a timely fashion.

If you plan to race or circumnavigate a new boat, plan on re-doing the running/standing rigging, wiring, plumbing, tanks, and much more to ensure it is well-equipped to do that particular type of sailing. All production boats today have the hull/rigging designs of racers with the accommodations of a luxury condo at Cabo and the hardware on board to support neither safely or reliably for any length of time.

There are a few modern boats that can cater to both worlds, but as anyone on SN will tell you...there are always compromises to boat features. In my opinion, a new boat has the most compromising being done. At the end of the day, the builder isn't going to say "well if we do things like this it will make the boat safer, but we won't make any money" and then do the 'things'. A boat owner will do the 'thing'.
 
#20 ·
Do they build boats over 30 feet with one helm?

I was getting ready to bitchslap the salesman who told me it was a big help in docking. One might think they would at least put the engine control(s) in the middle.

I'd set up Ye Olde Voice Tube hanging from the backstays over to the engine control.

"ALL AHEAD 1/16, Neutral, ALL AHEAD 1/8, Neutral, ALL STOP, ALL REVERSE 1/3, Neutral, ALL AHEAD 1/32, AFFIX THE FORWARD SPRING LINE, Neutral, ALL REVERSE 1/16, ALL STOP, AFFIX THE DOCKING LINES, MAKE ME A MOJITO, BRING ME MY LOUNGING SLIPPERS, SUMMER ROBE AND ASCOT"



**Please visit my website to buy the complete set of talking tube blueprints (duct tape, rusty filet knife and empty beer cans not included)
 
#25 · (Edited)
Another lesser known reason to use the traveller; it reduces the need to ease the main sheet. This is specific to boats with no backstay (most cats and some newer monos). My cat, for example, has no backstay, allowing for a lot of mainsail roach, but compromising forestay tension. All beach cat racers should know this. While you may consider it a racer's subtlty, it is a signifigant factor, and we are all racers when going to windward, if we are any kind of sailor. OFf the wind we kick back!:)

(the full explanation)
Sail Delmarva: Driving to Windward...

"No Back Stay. This means that the forestay cannot be kept tight unless you want to turn your boat into a banana and over stress the shrouds. Although swept back, they are only designed for the side force and a trace of forward pull. Real tension on the forestay comes from mainsheet tension.

Why must the forestay stay tight? Sag allows the genoa to become more full, since a sagging forestay has the effect of injecting more sailcloth into the sail. The draft moves aft, the slot is pinched, drag increases, and lift does not. This is OK off the wind, but not to windward, since heeling and leeway (sideslip) increase, which also increases drag. Going to windward is about lift:drag, not just power.

How do you keep from easing the mainsheet in strong winds? Ease the traveler a little, being certain to keep the main outhaul tight (a full main pinches the slot). Reef; it's better to keep a smaller sail tight than a larger sail loose. You will see monos with the main twisted off in a blow. Ignor them, they are not cats. Use the traveler instead. It is also physically much easier to play the traveler than the main sheet."
 
#28 ·
I trim mostly with the traveler. the boat has a very long traveler but very under sized control blocks (29 mm is to small ) and large line which added to much fiction to the system. I changed the line to a smaller size with some old 6 mm Sta Set just so we could sail the boat. Now i will be upsizing the blocks so I can use an 8mm line and reduce the friction in the system. I am considering the climbing rope as it seem that the stretch might make the traveler system work like a auto trim in small gusts. easy to try but not being a climber it has been hard to determine which line. Are there some types that will have to much stretch? I need a line that does not twist up when running in the control blocks and does not hockle.
 
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#26 ·
Pdqaltair, I am new to beachcat racing, only having picked up my boat on Saturday, but am a long time traditional rig monohull sailor.

If I'm reading this last point correctly, I should be dumping wind using the traveller rather than the mainsheet to stay on my feet/stay flat. Am I reading this correctly?
 
#27 ·
Obviously this depends on the situation (the mainsheet dumps faster) but it is something to expereiment with. Lower the traveler 6-24 inches for the sustained wind load, and trim for gusts with the mainsheet. This is faster to weather than just easing the mainsheet. In general the jib stays in up wind. I sailed beach cats for years and miss them--pure fun!!

Second, the jib on most beach cats is tiny compared to my 130% genoa. Thus, the effect is less noticeable. It is most noticeable on masthead boats, like mine, that have no backstay. This is obviously one of the reasons most no-backstay boats are fractionally rigged.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for all these tips.

My sailing partner and I are completely clueless with these types of boats. We each own traditionally rigged full keel cruising monos

The little Prindle schooled us on Sunday. It was crazy fast, but we were pretty shocked to learn we couldn't even tack it with the skills we knew.

I think I might be a cat convert though.
 
#34 ·
Thanks for all these tips.

My sailing partner and I are completely clueless with these types of boats. We each own traditionally rigged full keel cruising monos

The little Prindle schooled us on Sunday. It was crazy fast, but we were pretty shocked to learn we couldn't even tack it with the skills we knew.

I think I might be a cat convert though.
They can do that. but it is fun and never seems to get old.
keep the speed up before the tack, tack quick, do not release the jib until it backwinds. once the boat stops moving forward reverse the rudders so the boat backs up into the tack. Rule # 1 Do you have righting line? never leave the shore with out it. # 2 if you pitch pole both sailors on the back cross bar to sink the stern until the mast floats and boat falls on its side then right with the line attached near the mast step and throw over the hull, uncleat both sheets and then right the boat. practice it in shoal water before you need to do it in a bad place. check your mast it should be sealed so that it will float.
 
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#35 ·
Yep, we brought the righting line. We also brought a PDF print out of the manual in a zip lock bag lol. We figured out back steering on the rudders after looking really dumb in irons for about 5+ minutes.

I can't see this ever getting old. I have sailed a lot, and I think it's the most fun I have ever had on a sailboat with my clothes on.
 
#52 ·
^^ I've always felt the joy of sail is figuring stuff out for yourself.

* Read books. Think deeply about what you have read. Don't just accept "do this." Understand why.
* Follow forums. Lots of good tips. But they will not always be in clear context.
* Sail next to other sister boats. Are you slower? Adjust something, one thing at a time.

Yes, there are many factors, but they are focus on the same things:
* Keeping flow attached.
* Deflecting the maximum amount of air downwind and reaching.
* Maximum lift/drag up wind.
* Adjusting for waves, vertical wind gradient, gusts, and shifts.

And this is what the strings do, by allowing you to twist and shape the cloth.

The fun is figuring it out!!
 
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