SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Buying an uncommon boat - would you?

5K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  wungout 
#1 ·
I'm considering buying a boat that is largely unknown in the U.S -- an 1984 Omega 30 designed by Ron Holland and built in Sweden. In fact, if you Google for some background on this boat, you will find virtually nothing - which is unusual considering Google.

In the past, I've owned many boats. One of these, a Cal, was in beautiful condition but was difficult to sell - perhaps because Cal didn't have much of a following in New England. After this, I bought a boat defensively that I came to dislike, Catalina, but was a snap to resell.

So my first question is this, is it worth buying an 80's, virtually unknown boat that I might really like (price is good, not outstanding) ... but when the time comes to resell it, might languish in the classifieds for a long time? I expect to lose money in owning a boat, but I just don't want to get stuck with an albatross.

And my second question concerns the boat - does anyone know anything about the Omega that they could share?

Thanks, rr
 
#2 ·
Ryan...with a designer like Holland and an older boat which faces very little depreciation, I would think you would be pretty safe provided the boat itself is attractive and well built of traditional materials.
Assuming the boat you are talking about is the one in NY...she looks very nice and should be easy to re-sell. Are the teak decks in good shape? they really add some classy looks to the boat but are always concern on an older boat.
Someone here might know more about the 30's:
http://www.ronhollanddesign.com/sailingclub/forumdisplay.php?fid=6
 
#3 · (Edited)
We also own an "unknown" - and it too is a Ron Holland design. A "Fast 345" - a Brazilian-built version of the British Nicholson 345, we have found her to be well appointed, no bad habits, and compared with similar "more familiar" offerings she is better finished at a much lower price. The layout is very good with a fully functional aft cabin (rare in an '80s boat), and the detail is great. Google this one and you get nothing but Portugese language sites (over 100 were built in Brazil)

In the past we have owned other "unknowns" or non production boats (Choate 40, for one) and have been able to enjoy much more boat for the money than with the standard makes and models. We owned the Choate for 12 years, and sold it for about what we paid - discounting upgrade costs - still not a bad deal. It does take a bit longer to sell, but a knowledgable buyer will see quality for what it is.

Your initial investment is usually lower due to the "unkown" factor.

One of the on-going pleasures of owning such a boat is the constant interest - "What kind of boat is that, anyway?" and the conversations that develop from that question. This is something that Hunter/Cata/Bene owners don't get.

So as long as you are able to ensure that the unknown is not of poor quality or design, and it surveys well you will usually get more boat for your money, a quality product, and the uniqueness of not sailing just another you-know-what.
 
#4 ·
I, too, have an unknown boat. (well almost, her sister is 5 times IRC Portuguese champion!!). By my choice of course.

Why?? because nothing in the market was what I wanted.
It really depends on the quality, and design, as faster said.

Unkown+bad quality or home built is a NO GO.

Unknown really well built and bulit by a yard that built more than 10 could be a good thing. Maybe it was a Custom build?

I have received several offers on my "unkown" boat that would top what I spent on her!!! So really depends, You like it? Is it well built?? Know a little of the history??go for it. You can allways sell it later.:cool:

Fast, if you need translation of the Brasilian (Portuguese) stuff let me know.:)
 
#6 ·
#7 ·
I am trying to put myself in your shoes, because I could easily see myself in the same situation and I can think more rationally about you doing it than I can about what I would do once my emotions were involved.
If you plan to own the boat for less than five years I would be concerned about being able to sell it easily. If you envision that this boat could meet your needs for the foreseeable future up to any major changes in life (retirement, demands for cash elsewhere like kids, college,etc..) then I'd be less concerned and negotiate the best price you can. As I believe Cam said, you are probably buying at or near the bottom of the market given the age of the boat. It's not going to drop a lot more in price and may even hold to around what you're paying.
I must confess that I am always amazed at the number of people who say not to buy this or that boat because you can't get parts, the company is out of business, and they didn't make very many of them. (Yeah, I'm a Cal owner!) I'm never going to buy a new boat and my impression of boats in general is that, even if we could find an original part for ours, we'd either want it slightly different or upgraded in some way anyhow. You'll never get accused of ruining the boat by moving the traveller if nobody knows where the traveller was originally! I could be all wet, but am currently feeling rather dry. Good luck.
 
#8 ·
Personally, I would not buy a boat that didn't have a fairly well-known name. Even if you expect to have it forever, there is likely to come a time when you want to sell it. And they sell much easier if it is a well known name with which people are familiar.

This may be true now more than ever with the Internet being the primary marketing tool. People are not focusing as much on good boats available in their area but on a particular model, as they can find them all in one place on Yachtworld.com or similar sites.
 
#9 ·
SailorMitch, thanks, read it with glee as I used to race on Red Jacket when it was mastheaded with Peter Bowman. Then with fractional and PJ Phelan. Also on Bonaventure V a one off 53. Those names from the past came on as afterguard guests. John Marshall was VP of North NY then and used to fly up with his wife, race, comment on the sails and fly back. The rich and famous do live as Fitzgerald said. Thanks again.
 
#10 ·
Ryan-
I'd say that given the criteria:
1-You don't know if you'll like the boat
2-The boat is virtually unknown in this market
3-You don't want to get stuck if you bail
4-It's a good price not a great price

This is not the boat for you.

If you really wanted this particular boat, or it the price was really great, or if this was some kind of a cult boat (the trimaran from Waterworld?<G>) maybe.

But on the other hand, if there is little interest in it and it has been on the market for a while, maybe you can use that to your advantage and get the price down to where it is worth the risk to you. If something has to sit on the hard for a whole winter...that's money lost from the selling price.
 
#11 ·
I would not....

Hello,

I would not buy a boat that you can't find at least a mailing list for. I was recently in the market for a 33-36 racer / cruiser. I found a boat that was 'interesting', it was a Laguna 33. Try finding information on that boat! I was actually able to locate two owners. Anyway, I was worried that I would never be able to sell the boat, and that questions on it would not be answered.

I ended up paying a lot for an O'day 35, but I know I will be able to find support for the O'day, parts are plentiful and it will be easier to sell than the Laguna.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Curragh, 1986 O'day 35
Mt. Sinai, NY
lenoble@optonline.net
 
#12 ·
First, off in its day, the Omega 30 was very well known and respected. There are lots of boats out there, especially older racer-cruisers, which are in the same situation. These boats offer very little disadvantage over better known models except that they take a bit more reseach to buy. The good news is that lesser known brands can usually be bought for less money and so you have more boat for the money. Over the life of owning the boat this means less interest paid. Since these boats have already been depreciated due to their being a lesser known brand, the fact that it is lesser known would not necessarily mean a bigger loss at the time of sale.

I think that way too much is made of whether a boat builder is still in business. Few replacement parts on modern boats (after 1980 or so) are proprietory and even when a company is still in business those parts are rarely available after the boat is out of production. (Catalina and Beneteau are notable exceptions). For example, you couldn't get replacement parts from Oday or Columbia even when they were in business.

Personally, I have found virtually no difference selling well known models and not very well known models. The key comes down to offering the boat in good shape at a reasonable price.

Jeff
 
#13 ·
I agree with Jeff. By the way a boat designed by Ron Holland and built in Sweden, to me has on the paper a better pedigree than many others well known (known for their marketing and poor quality). And I would not forget that as rryan14 found it interesting, other people will feel the same about it if it is well kept. A boat that is unknown is also a boat that distinguishes itself from the crowd, and that may appeal to many. Last but not least, many future cruisers are not necessarily very informed about the famous brands of the eighties. Sure the boat needs to be showed on picture and not only mentioned for attract future buyers, but with today's technology of internet I don't see the problem. And finally, yes the price has to be attractive, so do not pay too much for it.
cheers
 
#14 · (Edited)
OK.

Some gasoline into the fire.....

Listen, IT'S A BOAT. You like it you buy, you don't like you don't buy. Simple.

I have seen a lot of really really BAD BOATS out there that have wonderfull web pages and the best references MONEY CAN BUY!!!!!!!!!!Just buy ANY unbiased American Sail magazine, the list is long, Hunters, Macsomethings, Catalinas, Jeaneaus, you name it. There is good and there is bad.

BOATS ARE ALLWAYS BAD, otherwise the industry would be bankrupted.

Stop that uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have web page, uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have spare parts for my cleats or for my shower, uhhhh I never heard of it, uhhhh its foreign must be good, uhhh this uhhh that.

(I think that you guys in the US have become too much catalog buyers). Please no offense in what I said, ok???

PLEASE. go look at it, and get-r-done (bought a Larry The cable guy DVD, sorry).

Over here we have tons of "obscure" yachts that beat then "s****" of Benetau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria, you name it.

Just because they sell big time does not mean they are GOOD, it just means they sell cheap (obviously a compromise here with quality), and there is a lot of SUCKER buying them, because they read the "unbiased" SAIL report, or the "unbiased " WEB PAGE.

Here, we still buy boats according to the need,and with the heart.

I am having a VERY VERY VERY bad week, so I am sorry if I offended any one.

remeber

GET-R-DONE!
 
#15 ·
Ryan, you can email info@omegayachts.com apparently their web site is frozen right now, but the company still appears to be there. It is possible that the hull is a more commonly known RH design and the only "custom" part of it are the fittings, so you may be able to compare it better to something else sharing the hull design. (Although, a motivated broker might have already tried to do that.)
 
#16 ·
Another way to look at this (ie the obscure builder) is that perhaps they did not survive in business because they didn't cut enough corners to make money. And that could be a good thing (for the end product.)

I'd imagine it's difficult to sell a quality low-production-run vessel in a market flooded with high run boats like the "well known" brands. Lots of really good boats and builders went out of business for economic reasons, not quality control ones.

So, as has been said, it comes down to inherent quality (design and execution), a knowledgable buyer, good maintenance and presentation by the seller. And for those on limited budgets, this path can lead to more boat than you might otherwise get for your hard earned cash.
 
#19 ·
hellosailor said:
But on the other hand, if there is little interest in it and it has been on the market for a while, maybe you can use that to your advantage and get the price down to where it is worth the risk to you. If something has to sit on the hard for a whole winter...that's money lost from the selling price.
Good strategy...Or wait until March or so and then offer 75% of asking price. There is always another boat.
 
#20 ·
Follow up conundrums

Interesting replies to my original post; I think it really helps to get impartial advice when you get in the thick of the hunt and can't think straight. Thanks to all who replied.

It isn't that I don't trust a boat no longer manufactured - every model that I can afford isn't built now - but rather trying to resell the boat in, say 5 years, is my primary concern. Another concern is the lack of a user group. If I bought a 1980's vintage C&C, I can easily get advice on how to fix a problem or maybe find 2nd hand sails.

In the not so distant past, a buyer would be shown a few different boats by a broker and that broker could really influence the sale of an unknown, but distinguished boat. These days, buyers (including me) might go to yachtworld.com and type in a few keywords in the search box and the Omega is probably going to be invisible. I always type in the brand, the length, and the minimum year. I don't even recall how I came across the Omega.

The Omega is an intriguing boat that I still haven't seen in person. It has a PHRF rating of 144, teak decks which I love, self-tacking jib which is a plus/minus, and a nice interior. From what I can tell, it is in good but not great shape. The asking price is good but not outstanding. So, in the back of my mind, I was thinking if I could get this boat cheaply enough, then maybe my fears are unfounded. Or not?

Other boats that I am considering are early 80's C&C 34 and Tartan 33, mid 80's C&C 30, and late 80's J/28. None of these boats is absolutely outstanding in my price range (around $30K). Some boats, especially J Boats, seem grossly over-priced considering that their build quality doesn't necessarily match their reputation (and yet I still like them, which doesn't make any sense).

But there is also a dark side to buying the common boat - how does it get distinguished from its peers? In the Northeast where I live, there are 12 C&C 34s from the early 80's. It's hard to know which one to look at so price because the driving force.

I keep waiting for some boat to jump out and say 'buy me'. This hasn't happened yet.

rr
 
#21 ·
Giulietta said:
OK.

Some gasoline into the fire.....

Listen, IT'S A BOAT. You like it you buy, you don't like you don't buy. Simple.

I have seen a lot of really really BAD BOATS out there that have wonderfull web pages and the best references MONEY CAN BUY!!!!!!!!!!Just buy ANY unbiased American Sail magazine, the list is long, Hunters, Macsomethings, Catalinas, Jeaneaus, you name it. There is good and there is bad.

BOATS ARE ALLWAYS BAD, otherwise the industry would be bankrupted.

Stop that uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have web page, uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have spare parts for my cleats or for my shower, uhhhh I never heard of it, uhhhh its foreign must be good, uhhh this uhhh that.

(I think that you guys in the US have become too much catalog buyers). Please no offense in what I said, ok???

PLEASE. go look at it, and get-r-done (bought a Larry The cable guy DVD, sorry).

Over here we have tons of "obscure" yachts that beat then "s****" of Benetau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria, you name it.

Just because they sell big time does not mean they are GOOD, it just means they sell cheap (obviously a compromise here with quality), and there is a lot of SUCKER buying them, because they read the "unbiased" SAIL report, or the "unbiased " WEB PAGE.

Here, we still buy boats according to the need,and with the heart.

I am having a VERY VERY VERY bad week, so I am sorry if I offended any one.

remeber

GET-R-DONE!
Well said! I have a Challenger 32 and that is an off boat. Try finding any info. I managed to find about 6 other boats in the whole damn world. However she has been the greatest teacher I have ever had. The boat is sound, but every system has to be redone. I just finished rebuilding the spreaders and replacing the standing rigging and taught myself how to tune it. I insist on doing this work myself or managing it myslef. If and when it ever goes down it will be on my shoulders. The other great thing about an off boat is you can customise it any way you want with worrying about offending the OD people or being compared to the other 50 hunters that are on your dock. I love that. There are no pre-conceived ideas about my boat and what it should look like. No questions about whay I didn't use genuine replacement parts. This boat is my canvas.

I suggest you look carefully at any boat boat from the 60's and 70's witha good hand laid hull that is built strong. The rest is just the strength of your back, the vast reaches of your imagination and the depth of your wallet
 
#22 ·
you're my new best friend...

EGGGG-ZACTLY

(you're right on, spot on, you hit the nail on the head... ) :)

Giulietta said:
OK.

Some gasoline into the fire.....

Listen, IT'S A BOAT. You like it you buy, you don't like you don't buy. Simple.

I have seen a lot of really really BAD BOATS out there that have wonderfull web pages and the best references MONEY CAN BUY!!!!!!!!!!Just buy ANY unbiased American Sail magazine, the list is long, Hunters, Macsomethings, Catalinas, Jeaneaus, you name it. There is good and there is bad.

BOATS ARE ALLWAYS BAD, otherwise the industry would be bankrupted.

Stop that uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have web page, uhhhh I don't buy if they don't have spare parts for my cleats or for my shower, uhhhh I never heard of it, uhhhh its foreign must be good, uhhh this uhhh that.

(I think that you guys in the US have become too much catalog buyers). Please no offense in what I said, ok???

PLEASE. go look at it, and get-r-done (bought a Larry The cable guy DVD, sorry).

Over here we have tons of "obscure" yachts that beat then "s****" of Benetau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria, you name it.

Just because they sell big time does not mean they are GOOD, it just means they sell cheap (obviously a compromise here with quality), and there is a lot of SUCKER buying them, because they read the "unbiased" SAIL report, or the "unbiased " WEB PAGE.

Here, we still buy boats according to the need,and with the heart.

I am having a VERY VERY VERY bad week, so I am sorry if I offended any one.

remeber

GET-R-DONE!
 
#23 ·
Anyone know this boat?

This seems like a good thread for this question. While bottom feeding among the online boat ads one rainy night, I came upon this:

http://www.sailingtexas.com/sbacchant36a.html

It's a European boat called a Bacchant 36. Looks interesting, if tired. I could find no information about it on the internet, but I still remember the boat. I'm a sucker for classic plastic. Can anyone shed any light on this breed?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top