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All purpose sailboat

11K views 65 replies 20 participants last post by  albrazzi 
#1 ·
HI all,
Bit of a dilemma in choosing a sailboat. I've narrowed my search down to the following:
Alberg 29, 30
CS 27, 30
Bristol 29, 32


In addition to leisurely sails, my buddies and I like going out when its blowing over 20 knots and want something that can handle "white knuckle" sailing. On the flip side, I want something that will be comfortable for "non-sailor" guests (1 or 2) for overnight/weekend stays and has good motion at sea.

I'll be cruising the great lakes for now but if all works out, I'd like to head south to Florida and eventually the Bahamas.

Previously you've recommended Catalina 30, Grampian 30 but I've read that these boats don't like being out there when it gets rough. I've also read that the Albergs tend to heel more than other boats - this may be of some concern for the non-sailing guests on board. Any general thoughts on Albergs' sailing characteristics that you know of?

And any thoughts on other boats that I should consider for this suppose? My budget is around $20k with some more saved for updates.

Cheers
 
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#3 · (Edited)
With all due respect, the Albergs and the specific Bristols mentioned are comparatively miserable heavy air boats. Of the all of the boats on the list presented, I would only consider the CS-30 if I was looking for a boat that sailed well across a broad spectrum of conditions. If I were to add an affordable Bristol in that general size to the list, I would suggest the Herreshoff designed Bristol 33/34 which would be good choice for what you are considering. They typically sell for similar prices to the 32's in equal condition and are far superior boats in all ways. I had a lengthy chat with an owner who had gone through the Carribbean, South America with one and had nothing but praise for the boat. Here is some info and ads (some out of date) which should provide more information on these boats.
http://www.bristolsailboats.org/?page_id=108
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1406
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/38143
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/57402
http://sailingtexas.com/201301/sbristol33101.html

Jeff
 
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#6 · (Edited)
I have had mixed emotions about that. The one that I looked at most closely had great access to work on the engine, but looked a bit vulnerable. The concern that I has was that that boat had a keel stepped mast and so there was water in the bilge, but in talking with the guy who had cruised his all over, he had not run into any problems with this.

Curious...as the owner of an Alberg 35...what the reasoning behidn your comment that "Albergs are lousy heavy air boats" is?
It probably comes as no surprise to any one who has read my comments on Alberg's designs, but having spent a lot of time sailing his designs, I am not a fan of the way the majority of his designs sail. In heavy going, they tend to be very tender. This was done on purpose in order to increase the waterline when heeled, but in a breeze it makes for a hard boat to sail. The rig proportions require an early reef and then an early headsail change if you are going to carry a genoa with enough sail area to sail in lightish conditions. If you use a small enough genoa that it can be furled down to a reasonable size for a 20 knot breeze, the sail is too small and heavy for more moderate conditions, say under 8-10 knots of wind.

I find their motion very uncomfortable. While the motion is slower than some designs that followed them, they tend to rotate through much larger angles in all rotational motions (pitch, roll, and yaw). In particular they tend to pitch (hobby horse) miserably in a chop and the full bows tend to hit harder with each wave than finer bowed boats like the Bristol 34 mentioned above. That slows their speed and the deceleration is uncomfortable. Their comparatively round bottom combined with their low dampening and stability means that they roll a lot as well. Their short waterlines mean that they tend to hunt and yaw excessively especially in quartering seas.

The full bows also tend to bring a lot of spray and green water aboard depending on the wave size and shape, but much worse than boats with flare rather than the flam that Alberg favored in order to try to beat the Universal and CCA rule.

They tend to develop wicked weather helms if you carry enough sail area to drive through a seaway, but lose a lot of speed if you shorten sail in order to reduce weather helm.

So when the OP says that he wants a boat to sail in 20 knots of wind, and which has a comfortable motion, that would pretty much eliminate the Albergs or the particular Bristols on the list.

Jeff
 
#7 · (Edited)
I would be curious to know what your source is for Grampian 30's being bad heavy air boats. Definitely not a G30 owner, because they are decent heavy air boats (I'm a former G30 owner), the reason I sold mine was because I wasn't a big fan of the atomic 4, and the multiple leaks when it rained, but they are strong boats that track and sail reasonably well in heavy weather.

Of your list, I would tend to favour the CS 27 and CS 30, just because of the modern layout and the diesel inboards for your stated all around purpose.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Of your list, I would tend to favour the CS 27 and CS 30, just because of the modern layout and the diesel inboards for your stated all around purpose.
I am not sure why you think I am disagreeing with you. I have quoted my first post in this thread above. I would chose the CS27, and not by a small margin either, but I am not the OP and people like what they like.

I have been sailing on Lake Ontario since I was a wee lad and I know an Alberg 30 can more than handle 20 knot winds on Lake Ontario.

Keep in mind, L.O. is laid out East-West, the prevailing wind is westerly and Toronto is only 25 miles or so from the Niagara Escarpment at the West end of the lake, big waves are relatively uncommon during the summer in Toronto, which is likely one of the reasons it's such a popular sailing destination.

And before I get blasted as being out of step because my experiences and the science (I'll explain the science another time)

Snip

When you too have tried beating in an Alberg 30 in a building breeze off the coast Georgia where the Atlantic waves build steeply over the shelf, you can come back and explain to me why think that the extreme rolling,
1) I studied Nautical Science, so, I am comfortable with the science.

2) In my opinion; preparedness, humility and knowledge seem (to me) to have a bigger influence on who gets into trouble on the water than boat choice.

My point was simply, if he likes that boat, it would work. It would not be my first choice, but it would definitely work, and liking your boat is a pretty important part of this recreational sailing stuff.
 
#8 ·
Thanks Jeff. Very interesting observations. I haven't sailed an Alberg so my conclusion was drawn from the various threads here and other forums. It made me think they can cut through waves better due to their short beam and heavy displacement. Perhaps the misinformation is due to the fact that their owners love their boats so much that they just can't speak negatively of them.

Bristol 34 would have been nice but I can't go over 32 feet due to my marina's slip limitations.
Hoping to sail differnet boats in the upcoming season since it seems that it's hard to choose one just by reading.
Thanks for the info...
 
#12 ·
Thanks Jeff. Very interesting observations. I haven't sailed an Alberg so my conclusion was drawn from the various threads here and other forums. It made me think they can cut through waves better due to their short beam and heavy displacement. Perhaps the misinformation is due to the fact that their owners love their boats so much that they just can't speak negatively of them.
I don't think that's it. People buy different boats for different reasons. Price is often a factor, aesthetics are often a factor. Their local sailing conditions are often a factor.

The boats you are describing are very different boats, any of which can be sailed in 20 knot winds by a competent crew and I would think people would buy them for different reasons.

I don't think this which boat is better yard stick exists since their are so many factors at play and personal preferences and experiences play such significant role.

There are boat designs that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole and boats that I couldn't touch because they are too expensive, but other people are perfectly happy sailing them because that boat works for them.
 
#10 ·
Bristol 29 is a Halsey Herreshcoff design, and the 32 is a Ted Hood design.

Do yourself a favor and do a google search for opinions other than Jeff's, which is contrarian to any owners comments I have ever heard or read about a Bristol 29 or 32. They are built like tanks, take heavy conditions in stride, are confortable at sea, and many have been used for offshore cruising and passages without incident.
 
#11 ·
As a CS 30 owner, Ill try and not be too biased.:grin Its a more modern design, pluses are fast under most conditions shorten sail and she screams in 20kt winds, don't over power and you will be rewarded. High quality Selden rig I cant say enough about the rig package, aft led lines (2) spin halyard shutes, bendable masthead rig etc. Very nice down below, double aft berth unheard of in a 30 footer nav station etc. High build quality in general and moderately proportioned less beam than a lot, including C-30 and nicely detailed.
If she has minuses the transom gets some slap tied up with a sea coming from the rear quarter (minor) annoyance, they tend to be pricey, and the slack bilge can be a bit annoying there is just no room for any stray water to collect at all, no good sump for a bilge pump. Cruising storage is a bit lacking.
They can be a bit hard to find and there are lots of older Boats out there more affordable but I think they are worth the premium.
 
#13 ·
We had friends with a Bristol 29. They were disappointed to always be the last ones in to a harbor because the boat is so slow. In rough weather they seemed pretty tender to us, wet, and bouncy. In light wind... they motored. Down below was cramped because of the narrow beam. Have you considered any J/boats? A J/28 is more cruise-oriented than most of their line, but still moves in light air. A J/30 might also work. The cockpit isn't super comfy, but it has most of what you seem to want, including pricing, and would be pretty quick. They seem to revel in heavier conditions. J/32's are also more cruise-oriented, if you can find one in your price range. Worth perhaps checking out.
 
#16 ·
CS 30 is probably one my favs. at the moment. Although the ones I've seen are a bit over my budget.

Can you explain what you mean by "transom gets some slap tied up with a sea" and the Slack Bilge problem? Sorry it's been a steep learning curve.

As with the C&C's, I sailed the 25 footers in the summer and really liked them. But I'm not in love with the dinette seating in the 30 footer. Are there ones made with typical settee on bother sides?

For some reason I keep coming back to the Alberg 29/30s. something about their looks that I just love even though they seem to have a very low free board which may scare off my non-sailing guests. Any thoughts on this?

Regardsless, Jeff's comments about their sailing characteristics have cast some doubt but I'll still try and sail one in the summer to find out for myself.
To me they're the perfect mix of size, price, looks.

Thanks everyone for your comments. This is very helpful
 
#29 ·
CS 30 is probably one my favs. at the moment. Although the ones I've seen are a bit over my budget.

Can you explain what you mean by "transom gets some slap tied up with a sea" and the Slack Bilge problem? Sorry it's been a steep learning curve.

As with the C&C's, I sailed the 25 footers in the summer and really liked them. But I'm not in love with the dinette seating in the 30 footer. Are there ones made with typical settee on bother sides?

For some reason I keep coming back to the Alberg 29/30s. something about their looks that I just love even though they seem to have a very low free board which may scare off my non-sailing guests. Any thoughts on this?

Regardsless, Jeff's comments about their sailing characteristics have cast some doubt but I'll still try and sail one in the summer to find out for myself.
To me they're the perfect mix of size, price, looks.

Thanks everyone for your comments. This is very helpful
When tied in my slip, in a rare souwester breeze rollers will come in and slap under the transom a bit, the Boat has no overhang just a small area that at rest has an air gap. At anchor or under way there is nothing to notice. This Boat has a very flat bottom the bilge is about 3.5" deep through the whole Boat, the bilge pump just cant keep it dry. Some use dripless packings and though I stay pretty dry some water will sneak in the keel stepped mast and the stuffing box. Just need to stay mindfull and pull the boards often and dry it out with a shop vac. Neither are issues that are more than just things to talk about certainly not negatives in my mind. If you get serious anbout one I will be glad to share more. AL
 
#17 · (Edited)
Here is my take on Albergs 30's for your purposes. You live in mid town Toronto and for the immediate future plan on sailing in Toronto and on Lake Ontario.

Alberg 30's were designed by a Torontonian for racing in Toronto and on Lake Ontario and built 1/2 hour outside of Toronto. They are a popular boat locally with an active class association. Not only that, but they were such a such a well designed and built boat they earned an international reputation and are appreciated by budget minded long distance sailors around the globe.

If you find their look and feel speaks to you on an emotional level, you could do a lot worse, especially given your location and home waters.

If it was me, I would probably look for one that has been upgraded to a diesel engine. I say go for it if you like them.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Before I reply to Arcb's comment, I would like to apologize for an error in my earlier post. I had mistakenly panned the Bristol 29. I had mentally thought the question was about the Bristol 29.9 rather than earlier the Bristol 29.

The Bristol 29 should actually a reasonably nice boat for the original poster's purpose. These were unusual boats for their day in that they had a little longer waterline relative to overall length, higher stability, a little less superfluous weight, finer bow, and flatter run than was typical for boats of that era. It meant that they were easier boats to sail and do better in a chop than was the norm for the era.

In response to Arcb's comment :
Here is my take on Albergs 30's for your purposes. You live in mid town Toronto and for the immediate future plan on sailing in Toronto and on Lake Ontario.

Alberg 30's were designed by a Torontonian for racing in Toronto and on Lake Ontario and built 1/2 hour outside of Toronto. They are a popular boat locally with an active class association. Not only that, but they were such a such a well designed and built boat they earned an international reputation and are appreciated by budget minded long distance sailors around the globe.

You don't need to ask any one who sails in different waters with a different sailing style what kind of boat you like for sailing in your home waters.
That might be useful information it if was accurate, but its not. The design for the Alberg 30 was commissioned by Annapolis yacht importer George P. Walton for a syndicate of Annapolis Yacht Club based racers. Walton wanted the boat designed by Phillip Rhodes who had designed the Chesapeake 32 for Walton a few years earlier. At the request of the syndicate, Walton also approached Rhode Island based yacht designer Carl Alberg about the design. Walton and the syndicate chose to hire Carl Alberg because he was less expensive and more readily available than Rhodes to take on the project.

The Annapolis syndicate requested that the boat be designed to be more competitive than the Triton under the CCA racing rule and optimized for the light air of the Chesapeake Bay.

According to a conversation that I had with one of these original syndicate members, Carl shifted from the hollow bow of the Triton to a fuller bow on the Alberg 30 which Carl believed would more effectively increase waterline length at the large heel angles that these boats were intended to be raced at. The syndicate had requested the shift from the Triton's fractional rig to the Alberg 30's masthead rig under the belief that the masthead rig allowed a larger amount of unrated genoa and spinnaker sail area under the CCA rule, which was intended to help in lighter air sailing.

Because the Alberg 30 was designed to heel a lot in order to stretch their waterline lengths, and they were going to be raced in the relatively light air of the Chesapeake, the Alberg was purposely designed to be heeled more easily than the Triton. That purposefully reduced stability came both in the form of less ballast (A30 37% vs T 43.5%) and in the shape of the hulls, with the Triton having firmer bilges for a little more form stability.

When it came time to choose a yard to build the Alberg 30, Walton bid the construction to three yards: Whitby, who had built the Walton 25/Continental 25 for him, Grampian who had built the Classic 31 and Classic 37/Walton 37 for him, and the Danish yard who built the Chesapeake 32.

Walton wanted to use Grampian, who he thought did better work than Whitby, but Whitby offered a better deal and the Syndicate chose to go with Whitby. Depending on who you talk to, the original 14 boats (some say up to 17 boats) were sold to members of Annapolis Yacht Club. the boats sold well in Canada in large part because in those days Canada had large tariffs on boats entering Canada.

When I came time to name the boat, Whitby wanted to call it a Whitby 30, Walton wanted to call it a Walton 30, and the AYC syndicate wanted to call it an Annapolis 30. Alberg 30 was chosen as a compromise in part because it was thought that it would be better for marketing purposes.

So in reality, Alberg 30's were designed by a semi-retired yacht designer from Rhode Island, for racing in Annapolis, Maryland for the light air of the Chesapeake and built by the low bidder boatyard a 1/2 hour outside of Toronto. Decades ago, A-30's were a popular race boat locally on the Chesapeake. They do have a cult following as cruisers but in terms of having "an international reputation and are appreciated by budget minded long distance sailors" the Alberg 30 gets recommended as a cruiser because you can buy these boats very cheaply, and with a mix of proper maintenance and restoration, they make a better cruising boat than many similar priced boats. But that in no way makes them a particularly good choice for the requirements of the original poster.

Having spent a lot of time sailing Alberg 30's in a variety of venues, these are not great boats to sail in heavy conditions. With modern reef gear, and decent properly sized headsails, they can be sailed in 20 knots of wind, but not as easily and comfortably as other better designs such as the Bristol 29 mentioned above.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
#22 ·
Good info on the history of Albergs. I'm puzzled as to how they are so popular as cult classics and budget offshore boats based on Jeff's comments. Nothing against Jeff....he's speaking of experience which is very valuable. I will have to do the same to reach my own conclusions.

I tend to agree with arcb in that the boat needs to have an emotional appeal. And Albergs truly do. Having said that, in terms of similar boats what else would you recommend? Similar as in classic lines and one that can be found on a budget.
Something about super racy looking boats that turn me off. I need character. Mix that with seaworthiness and good sailing characteristics and I think I'll myself a boat.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Take Jeff's comments with a grain of salt (as you should anybody's opinion). He is against popular opinion on this issue.

As for the story of the Alberg 30 - it is known here on the west coast that the Alberg 30 design was originally contracted by a group of SF sailors and was originally called the "Odyssey". Then the design was sold to Whitby who changed the cabin top, and lowered the ballast ratio despite Alberg's objections (went from lead to iron for cost).

The original Odysseys were extremely well built with heavier ballast (as Alberg originally conceived), no deck core, glassed together hull/deck joint etc. They are rare and worth seeking out if you can find one and like the Alberg 30.
 
#24 ·
Also, read about the remarkable solo circumnavigation (through the roaring 40's) by Yves Galinas aboard "Jean du Sud" an Alberg 30, and his comment that "40 years later, I would still choose an Alberg 30".

Jean is still sailing the worlds oceans, not some day racer on the Chesapeake. I would take his comments much more seriously regarding the suitability of the Alberg for offshore heavy weather conditions.
 
#26 · (Edited)
JeffH, whether the published sequence of events in the articles I presented or the sequence of events you present is accurate, I don't think matters much. Chesapeake Bay and Lake Ontario are fairly similar bodies of water. They are both long bodies of water, of more or less similar size and shape. They are 2 very formative bodies of water in the sport of inland sailing in the Americas. I would think a boat that is a suitable racer for one, would be a suitable racer for the other.

However, these boats did something many other racers never did and never will do, they became popular with long distance budget cruisers.

Not just any boat can do that on the Merritt's of price alone.
 
#27 ·
Maybe I can explain it this way.....
The significance of a CCA boat optimized for the prevailing 5-8 knots of light air typical of summer racing on the Chesapeake Bay is that the stability was purposefully reduced and the sail area developed around huge head sails. Generally, the Great Lakes Region races in a prevailing wind range the 8-12 knot range than we do here on the Bay and so a boat for that region is usually designed with more stability. But more to the point the OP was asking about a boat where his "buddies and I like going out when its blowing over 20 knots and want something that can handle "white knuckle" sailing."

I have spent a bunch of time racing Alberg 30's in those conditions and it is a miserable boat for that purpose. So my core point is that when you look at the choices that he is proposing the CS and the Bristol 29 are far superior choices.

As to the reason that people use them for distance cruising is precisely because they are affordable and a better choice than many of the options in that general price range. But also because a few of them have made successful distance voyages they have gotten the patina of somehow being good cruisers.

But the fact that a few examples have made successful voyages does not make them an optimum choice for someone who wants to go distance cruising. I usually give this example to explain my point on this. When I was restoring my Folkboat back in the early 1970's, an elderly Australian fellow ended up on the hard next me. He had sailed his boat all the way from Australia. The boat was a crudely built, hard chine, plywood 20 something footer. It had a poured concrete bolt on keel that was rusting from every pore. The topsides were a series of patches of scavenged plywood nailed with ring nails. The sails were more patch than sail. The rigging was rusting galvanized steel. He had no instruments except a clock, compass and sextant. He started out a seagull motor which did not run and ditched somewhere. The boat sailed poorly by any reasonable standard failing to tack through the wind reliably. And yet this guy had sailed this thing half way around the world. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of us would very say that this is an ideal boat for a long distance voyaging and yet because some anachronism of a plastic fantastic successfully completed a long distance voyage they are suddenly elevated to the position of an ideal blue water cruiser.

And before I get blasted as being out of step because my experiences and the science (I'll explain the science another time) do not lead me (or most others with a broad range of experience with these types of boats) to feign buying into the mythology, I would like to point out that in any period there are better and worse designs and better and worse built boats. Its a kind of a spectrum and in its era the Alberg 30 wasn't at the worst end of the spectrum. But there were boats from that same era that sailed better in a broad range of windspeeds and which are better built and better suited for the distance voyaging. The Bristol 29 being but one example of a better designed better built boat than the Alberg 30, and certainly would be a better boat to go out distance cruising on. And that is my point.

When you too have tried beating in an Alberg 30 in a building breeze off the coast Georgia where the Atlantic waves build steeply over the shelf, you can come back and explain to me why think that the extreme rolling, and pitching motion of these boats, (a motion which hurled crew violently across the cabin no matter how braced they were) make them a good distance cruiser. And if you really want to understand that motion, watch closely the motion of the J-24 that sailed up to your stern from to leeward and kept on going rolling and pitching through half the angle the Alberg is describing.

Respectfully,

Jeff
 
#30 ·
Thanks for the description of sailing Alberg designs. I haven't had mine long enough or out in storms enough to be able to say what she's like. I can say that motoring at 6 knots into wakes or a 2-4 chop on the Bay, she tends to shed water. I've seen water over the deck but it's rare. She does heel early and yes weather helm can be an issue; you learn to reef early, often at the dock before going out. Not sure about the storm motion. Again, thanks for your experience.
 
#31 ·
Two boats you may like. Tartan 27 and Tartan 30. Both would fit your stated categories.
TARTAN 27 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
TARTAN 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Looks do play a role in boat choice but is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I married a pretty women and looks are important to me but looks were far down my list of important traits. Sailboats are very similar to partners in that looks are important but should be considered further down the list of required traits. I have meant many physically beautiful women that lost all appeal to me after a five minute conversation. I have also meant other people not so beautiful physically that after a 5 minute conversation became spectacularly beautiful. It seems to me sailboats are very similar. Find one that makes your heart sing and is not just an infatuation. Take some time to get to know them and let the rose colored classes clarify.

Most sailors such as my self, only have experience sailing a few different boats. Few have extensive experience on more then 10 boats. One theme I have observed is that anyone who has lots of experience on lots of sailboats generally think Alberg 30 and Tritons and most other boats specifically designed to CCA and IOR rules are dated designs and genrally poor sailors. That is a very broad generalization and does not mean there are no exceptions. Some love these sailboat even to cult like following. That is fine we all have our own tastes but that does not make them great sailboats. There are many pros and cons when choosing any sailboat so weigh what is important to you and love the one your with.
 
#33 · (Edited)
The reason I haven't suggested any other boats is because, in my opinion, he needs look no further than a CS27 :)

As you likely know, I am in the market for a used boat in the same neighbourhood as the OP right now. Same budget, but I'm looking for something smaller than him.

The biggest brokerage in Toronto for this type of boat is probably Pat Sturgeon Yachts, sorry, I can't link, but it's easy to google. A quick review of the inventory reveals the following boats that are in his price range that I would consider appropriate:

A C&C 27 Mark V
A Mirage 27
An Aloha 28
And not 1 but 5 CS27's.
There are 2 CS 30's but they are way over his budget.

5 CS27's represents pretty good choice for him to pick and chose from, I think it's his best option, this is the second thread I have told him this in. I already pointed out the draw backs with an Alberg 30 in his thread "how much does it cost to keep a boat in Toronto". No point in repeating myself.

:)
 
#34 ·
Jeez guys. I think you are totally off. Obviously the Bristol 27 is the best boat every made, followed closely by the Valiant 32. :)

Seriously however, the Bristol 27 (and maybe some of the other Alberg designs) sails way more comfortably than my Catalina 22 sailed... which is the third best boat ever made. He, he, he.

Regarding heeling and scaring land-lubber friends. I find boat that is initially a little tender then hardens up strongly to be comforting. If the guests don't like heeling, reef more, or don't go out with them on windy days.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I actually like the Bristol 27. I have spent a bunch of time daysailing on one back in the early 1980's. While there were a mix of pluses and minuses, she was an enjoyable boat to mess around with. She belonged to a friend of mine. One of the stories that i loved about that boat was that Bob had decided to sail her to Bermuda. He had accumulated some time off and thought he could make it to Bermuda hang out a bit and then sail her back. It was not as fast passage as had been planned and so less than a day out of Bermuda he made the tough decision to turn around and sail her back home.

I must say that your asking price seems like a real bargain for an inboard version of this boat in the apparently nice condition that you have Cirque in.

Your comment about the Catalina 27 vs the Bristol 27 is an interesting one. It is a good example of the idea that there is a broad spectrum of choices out there that might appeal to different people for different reasons. By any objective point of view, the Bristol 27 is a much better built boat with a nicer motion and would be a better choice than the Catalina for cruising in a venue with winds that are predominantly in the 10-15 knot range.

On the flip side, the Catalina is a little faster and much roomier down below. They are a kick to race one design since they are so evenly matched for speed, but in a racing fleet like the one that is in Annapolis, it takes a lot to optimize these boats for racing and frankly the optimization of a large roach mainsail (which needs the halyard dropped and rehoisted in each tack so the leech can clear the backstay) makes them more work to sail than some other boat design. But more generally on the down side, they have a corky motion, are crudely built and can require a lot of effort to keep in shape.

But clearly there is a lid for every pot and so for one buyer the Bristol would be perfect and for another the Catalina would be preferred option.

The Bristol 27 is a good example to look at relative to my points about Alberg. If you compare the Bristol 27 (or Cape Dory 25) to the Alberg 30 or Ariel, you can see that the bow is finer, the water line proportionately slightly longer and the bilges a little firmer on the Bristol than on either the Ariel or Alberg 30. In other words, Carl Alberg pushed the Bristol 27 closer to his more cruising oriented designs like the Cape Dory 25 than the other two designs.

Lunch is over and I better get back to work.

Good luck selling Cirque,
Jeff
 
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