Increasing Sail Area - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 Old 01-09-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 88
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Increasing Sail Area

I have a motorsailer with more than adequate ballast. It has 10,600 lbs of ballast with a total displacement of 26,000. Yes a heavyweight. It is a ketch rigged Fisher 34. It has a capsize ration of 1.52 and a comfort ratio of 50, both good ratios. However, the SA/D is merely 11.5.

There must be some way to increase the Sailing Area. What are the choices?

DM
dm567 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,917
Thanks: 3
Thanked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Can you:

1) Buy a spinnaker?

2) 155 Genny?

3) Get your sails cut deeper?

Of course, all of these will have a trade-off, money being one of the big ones. I would not suggest a taller rig. We did that with our 380 and the boat was tender. I bet some racers could help you out (which I am not, incidentally).

I have been on several motorsailers and the old saying that they don't sail well and don't motor well was not far off. However, it sure is a HECK of a lot more comfortable than my boat down below and the engine room is awesome. Great liveaboard and my guess is that you will see more and more manufacturers building motosailers to keep more of the older generation. How do they make them sail well? Hmm. You don't. Go buy a sailing dink for a tender. Everything has a trade off. But the next time you get frustrated at how slow your boat is unless it is blowing 30, look down below at all the room you have. Drop your anchor. Enjoy a cocktail. The other 34's around you might have started happy hour before you got there, but you sure will enjoy it a lot more.

Don't know if the first three suggestions help? Probably not what you were looking for. I think, in my humble opinion, a fat heavy boat is a fat heavy boat and there is noooo way to make it perform otherwise. You can do some things to help... but in the end, all you did was make your boat more tender and spend a bunch of money for a half of a knot.
Cruisingdad is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 34 Old 01-09-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 88
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I don't expect the Fisher to be a raceboat which is good because it never will be. However, having acknowledged that, there may be interesting ways to help it perform better even if the increase in performance is marginal.

The changes I have thought of:

1. Increasing the height of both masts(Cruisingdad doesn't recommend this option but this boat has plenty of lead)

2. Adding a Hoyt self tacking boom and making the jib self tacking and then adding an additional furler for a cruising spinniker in front of the stay, the furthr forward the better.

I like the idea of the self tacking jib when motorsailing and when the wind is right using the spinniker.

Any thoughts?

DM
dm567 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
Senior Member
 
pigslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 804
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Add roach in the main.
pigslo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 825
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 10
 
I think the sail area is measured for the jib from the foretriangle ie standard sails. Once you get up to 20 knots you already have as much sail as she would handle. Below 10 it will handle substantially more. A big overlapping genoa is one answer and might give say 25% improvement in speed. Downwind and on a broad reach there is room for much greater sail area say a gennaker or cruising spinnaker. Quite what and how you set it up depends on how much you want ease of use. At say 10 knots you will still be underpowered but not as grossly so and you should get a respectable gain in speed say from 3 to 4, and maybe have more fun. Far cheaper than new mast sails and rigging. Fiddling with the sails won't cut it because the standard sail plan is designed for about 15 knots, at 10 knots you have half the wind power and at 5 an eighth as the force is proportional to the wind speed squared. You can't really double the main size but could increase the area at the top with full battens. The main increase has to be in the foresail area. While say a 180% genoa would be some help, you would need an alternative sail for over 10 knots apparent or it would be blown out.
I don't think a furler would work because you want the luff free for a gennaker or cruising spinnaker.

Last edited by chris_gee; 01-09-2007 at 04:54 PM.
chris_gee is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,851
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 13
         
dm, simply and bluntly... forget it!!

The gain will be almost nothing. Make the boat lighter to reduce the ratio.

Sorry
Giulietta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
Thanks Courtney.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
     
How about a mizzen staysail to give a boost while reaching??
T34C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 34 Old 01-09-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 88
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
What does a mizzen staysail look like?

Dom
dm567 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 34 Old 01-09-2007
Thanks Courtney.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
     
Like an A sail but flown from the mizzen mast.
T34C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 34 Old 01-09-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 88
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I found a picture of one on a Fisher.

http://www.sailmakers.com/sails-chute.html

I think that a great suggestion.

What about this also

http://www.sailcdi.com/Spinnakerfurler.htm

DM

I'm going to forget about raising the rig completely.
dm567 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Windward performance deseely General Discussion (sailing related) 21 04-01-2012 02:42 PM
Traveler question sohi07 Learning to Sail 11 10-21-2006 11:47 AM
Sail Repairs at Sea Brian Hancock Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-22-2003 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome