Serious Waves - SailNet Community
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 04-18-2017 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,554
Thanks: 373
Thanked 78 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Serious Waves

https://gfycat.com/FickleEasyGoldfinch
Minnesail likes this.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 04-18-2017
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 4,214
Thanks: 88
Thanked 222 Times in 213 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Serious Waves

I'm thinking how good a nice long hot shower would feel after THAT race!

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
Our Videos;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
capta is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 11 Old 04-18-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: TX/FL
Posts: 659
Thanks: 1
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Serious Waves

I wish the video was longer.
I'm guessing the skipper knew that boat and was comfortable.
They are powered up.

Last edited by RegisteredUser; 04-18-2017 at 05:17 PM.
RegisteredUser is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
 
post #4 of 11 Old 04-18-2017
Member
 
Gail Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Edgewater, Maryland
Posts: 42
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Serious Waves

I recall sailing in some rather gnarly conditions in 2001 aboard a Catalina 30 my then husband and I had purchased that we were delivering from Deltaville, VA to Deale, MD. The Annapolis to Newport race was underway and Hurricane Allison was downgraded to a tropical storm and was forecast to head briskly out to sea. The entire trip should have taken about 6 hours at a leisurely pace. Weather checks were made and the sky was partly cloudy and the winds fresh...

Well, that didn't last. Allison decided she wanted to stick around for the race and joined up with a friend of hers, "Low" (we nicknamed it the almost perfect storm) and when we had reached the Calvert cliffs, winds had picked up to 60 sustained, the rain was completely horizontal, and the waves were sending green water up to our mast as the Catalina's nose dove into the confused sea.

While passing the racing fleet, we heard at least 5 man overboard calls and several boats bailing out of the race due to the worsening conditions. We made the decision to make a run to Solomons as none of us had the strength to safely go any farther. 12 hours after heading out, we finally reached the protected cove of Solomons. We found an empty slip and tied off for the night. We were a crew of drowned rats, cold to the bone and all of our layers of clothing sticking to our skin in awkward bulges under our foulies.

The next morning the skies were clear and the air crisp. While walking to the office to let them know of our unplanned arrival, we looked out into the channel and noticed that the water level was VERY low. In fact, no boats with a draft greater than 3' could make it out. Thankfully, the people at Zahnisers did not charge us for the slip and allowed the boat to remain until the 5.3' draft could clear the channel. Great people there!!

I learned a huge amount on that sail and have a very deep respect for our mother nature while enjoying life in our little boats....
Slayer, davidpm, CalebD and 4 others like this.

1973 Cutter-Rigged Pearson 39 "Brandy"
______________________________________________
"Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun. But Mama, that's where the fun is...." ~Manfred Mann's Earth Band
Gail Peterson is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 7,506
Thanks: 12
Thanked 248 Times in 198 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Serious Waves

Neat little video. One of the surprising things to me about sailing smaller boats in big waves is what happens in the troughs. If the waves are big enough and steep enough, there is usually a lull in the wind when you are in the trough that occurs because the wave itself blocks the wind some. Its not a big deal when you are deep reaching or running, but going upwind it can have a profound effect as the boat slows dramatically as it tries to climb the face of the next wave. And then as you get to the top of the wave and are fully exposed to the wind, there is a tendency to knock down.

In very steep wave conditions, I found that it was important to maintain the right amount of speed, and the right angle to the wind. If you go too slowly the boat can actually be stopped, losing steerage, and even be pushed backwards against the rudder. Too much speed and the boat can be launched violently off the top of the crest and come down very hard (especially if you miss a major portion of the back of the wave).

In terms of the angle to the wind, the boat (even on a vane), does not steer at a constant angle to the wind and waves. Talking through the cycle of passing through a set of large steep waves, starting as the boat starts down the wave from the crest....At the top of the wave the boat is exposed to the full force of the wind and so the apparent wind is lifted and the boat heels over aggressively and starts to accelerate as the boat starts down the back of the wave. As the boat moves down the windward side of the wave, the boat speed increases due to surfing, and the wind speed decreases as the the wind is blocked by the next wave so the apparent wind is a header, and the tendency is to fall off to maintain speed and control. As the boat starts to climb the next wave the boat speed decreases and the wind speed also decreases and the apparent wind angle remains roughly the same. But as the boat starts to climb the wave and feels the full brunt of the wind, the wind angle quickly becomes a lift and the boat needs to head up to keep from knocking down.

Because a vane steers by apparent wind, it automatically does some of the right corrections. How successful the vane (or human) will be is dependent on carrying just the right amount of sail. There needs to be enough sail up to keep the boat at speed in the troughs, but not so much sail that the boat knocks down or develops uncontrollable weather helm at the crest. In those conditions a boat with minimal drag for its stability will generally do better than a boat that is high in drag relative to its stability because the low drag/ high stability boat can get by with less sail area and can stand up to its sail area better than a higher drag boat.

Jeff


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,646
Thanks: 0
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Serious Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Peterson View Post
I recall sailing in some rather gnarly conditions in 2001 aboard a Catalina 30 my then husband and I had purchased that we were delivering from Deltaville, VA to Deale, MD. The Annapolis to Newport race was underway and Hurricane Allison was downgraded to a tropical storm and was forecast to head briskly out to sea. The entire trip should have taken about 6 hours at a leisurely pace. Weather checks were made and the sky was partly cloudy and the winds fresh...

Well, that didn't last. Allison decided she wanted to stick around for the race and joined up with a friend of hers, "Low" (we nicknamed it the almost perfect storm) and when we had reached the Calvert cliffs, winds had picked up to 60 sustained, the rain was completely horizontal, and the waves were sending green water up to our mast as the Catalina's nose dove into the confused sea.

While passing the racing fleet, we heard at least 5 man overboard calls and several boats bailing out of the race due to the worsening conditions. We made the decision to make a run to Solomons as none of us had the strength to safely go any farther. 12 hours after heading out, we finally reached the protected cove of Solomons. We found an empty slip and tied off for the night. We were a crew of drowned rats, cold to the bone and all of our layers of clothing sticking to our skin in awkward bulges under our foulies.

The next morning the skies were clear and the air crisp. While walking to the office to let them know of our unplanned arrival, we looked out into the channel and noticed that the water level was VERY low. In fact, no boats with a draft greater than 3' could make it out. Thankfully, the people at Zahnisers did not charge us for the slip and allowed the boat to remain until the 5.3' draft could clear the channel. Great people there!!

I learned a huge amount on that sail and have a very deep respect for our mother nature while enjoying life in our little boats....
Gail, good story and Post. Youre no longer a junior member anymore
Gail Peterson likes this.
albrazzi is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
Member
 
Gail Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Edgewater, Maryland
Posts: 42
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Serious Waves

Jeff, do you find that when sailing in such conditions, you have to sail at a rather steep angle going up the wave, then turn into it a bit when cresting so that the wave does not take hold of the keel and throw you over? That's is what it felt like we had to do (we were going upwind, if that makes any difference).

Also, would someone sailing a full keel boat have to maneuver the waves differently than boat with a fin?

Thanks for you insight.

1973 Cutter-Rigged Pearson 39 "Brandy"
______________________________________________
"Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun. But Mama, that's where the fun is...." ~Manfred Mann's Earth Band
Gail Peterson is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 7,506
Thanks: 12
Thanked 248 Times in 198 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Serious Waves

My experience with large steep waves was in the Atlantic over the shallow shelf in Georgia where the winter and spring waves could build to 12-15 feet with an occasional larger wave thrown in. Typically either the windvane or the helmsman would feather up into the wind slightly as crossing the crest of the wave, and would fall off slightly on the way down the windward side of the wave. This worked well with centerboard and fin keel boats and made for a comparatively smooth ride if you didn't try to get too much speed or did not lose too much speed climbing the leeward side of the wave.

It was much harder with a full keel boat since you had to carry proportionately more sail area to make the climb up the leeward side of the wave, and the height of that sail area was lower to the water so it would be blanketed longer in the trough. Typically you would have almost no speed and no steerage by the crest of the wave, and so would get pushed back onto the rudder and/or not be able to feather up and so would take a large knockdown at the crest. As the boat would start to move forward again, there would be a lot of weather helm so it was hard to keep the boat on a course that would build speed for the next climb.

But the worst that I experienced was on boats that had a deeply cut away forefoot and keel hung rudder. The two examples that come most sharply to mind was a 1908 Herreshoff design and the other was an Alberg 30. These old girls beat you to death. With their short water lines they did not track like the full keeled boats and with their less effective keel hung rudders you could not steer your way through the waves. We ended up powering up the Herreshoff a little after being tossed back against the rudder so hard that we were afraid that it would be damaged. But in doing so, we were taking some pretty hard knock downs and had vast amounts of weather helm.

Jeff
Gail Peterson likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
Senior Member
 
midwesterner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 534
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Serious Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
My experience with large steep waves was in the Atlantic over the shallow shelf in Georgia where the winter and spring waves could build to 12-15 feet with an occasional larger wave thrown in.....

But the worst that I experienced was on boats that had a deeply cut away forefoot and keel hung rudder. The two examples that come most sharply to mind was a 1908 Herreshoff design and the other was an Alberg 30. These old girls beat you to death. With their short water lines they did not track like the full keeled boats and with their less effective keel hung rudders you could not steer your way through the waves. We ended up powering up the Herreshoff a little after being tossed back against the rudder so hard that we were afraid that it would be damaged. But in doing so, we were taking some pretty hard knock downs and had vast amounts of weather helm.

Jeff

I'm wondering how a boat like a Bristol 35.5 or a Cape Dory 33 would compare to the Alberg 30 or the Herreshoff?
midwesterner is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 11 Old 04-19-2017
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Serious Waves

Reminiscent of NARC 2002. We did it in a Cabo Rico 45.
captndave1 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
learning about waves... boknows Learning to Sail 20 02-07-2014 07:51 PM
Steering through the Waves?? Shack Seamanship & Navigation 5 09-13-2006 05:31 AM
How to Steer in Waves Carol Cronin Racing Articles 0 06-10-2002 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome