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  #21  
Old 01-25-2007
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Vans - I just bought a boat and am in a similar position to you. I have sailing experience, but it is limited, especially compared to the other guys on this thread. I looked at all kinds of blue water boats, they make my mouth water! I love a well built boat that doesn't look like a floating condo. But, it would have been the wrong boat for me at this point. I didn't realize it at the time, but comfort is really important at this point in my sailing career. Pick a boat that you will be comfortable on and like to spend time on. I spend a lot of time on her just fixing little things and puttsing around, learning how things work, what is connected to what. I bought 34' and am glad I didn't go bigger, it would be too much for one. My girlfriend and I are a little cramped sometimes, but we compromised and gave up a little comfort for a better built boat. I would not be comfortable in her in the open ocean, although I think she would do alright, but I would feel absolutely safe up and down the west coast. And for now, thats all we plan to do. Look at it like going to a really good restaurant, your eyes will be bigger than your stomach. Cam and CD and lots of others here have given me lots of priceless info, and it is usually right on the mark.
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2007
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although you can find plenty of silly posts between many of us here, when it gets down to it, if people are looking for credible advice from folks that have sailed in all sorts of conditions, on about every boat out there, this is the place.
i am going to side w/ the 28-30 foot crowd here. granted, i am partial to sabres (no secret there), and i think a 28' will give you a solid boat large enough to feel safe on, have enough space that said spousal unit might actually enjoy being aboard, yet still be comfortable to go off for a weekend.
i think a 22-25' boat can get "very small" quickly, for a novice sailor when the weather turns to worms.
after a couple of years learning the basics on a sabre 28...hey go for a hylas,hinckley or a swan...(and if we are talking a big inheritance might as well go whole hog).
as you hone your skills (we all continue to learn)..you'll buy a larger boat..develop bigger boat envy, want even a bigger boat..etc.
the next thing ya know..you'll be a moderator on here or have built a custom built 42' sloop.
the most important thing..., take some lessons and get out there and have fun.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2007
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Hmm. How about getting a 6-12' boat and learning to sail with the local kids or on a lake or wherever there is suitable water? Racing against them will teach you how to sail, as well as providing instant feedback on how you are doing. You might then try 20-30' or better local boaties are always looking for reliable crew who know the basics.
Hopefully you will always respect the sea, but as you acquire knowledge and competence your fear will diminish.
Your wife may change her thinking when four things happen. 1. She sees you becoming competent. 2 She has some pleasant experiences. 3 She becomes confident and competent herself. 4. You don't talk of doing marathons when she knows very well you can't crawl and wisely she would not go round a bay with you on a Hobie.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2007
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Hey Vans,

Okay... I have to say Cam's warnings about the Oregon region are very accurate

I live in Vancouver and have sailed off the coast near that area...

And, ... I have been in a HUNTER in rough water in that area, and let me tell you, it is some SCARY STUFF.

That boat is like a giant bobbing sphere with a mast and a sail. In 17 knot winds the boat's keel came out of the water when a gust hit the sails.

Also, most hunters do not have back-stays. (The thick steel lines that hold the mast when the boat us going down-wind)

I don't know about you guys, but that's scary stuff

I've also sailed a chartered 38' Benetau in rough waters. 30 Knots of Wind and steep 3 meter(9 foot waves) in the Georgia Straight here. It handeled very well, but I don't think I'd take that around the world. There are many design flaws in it.

Check out:

www.shannonyachts.com

Those guys in my opinion make the best Blue water boats in the world. But also the most expensive ones. What's good is they have a whole section which tells you exactly what yo uwant to look for in a blue water boat, I recommend you read it.

There are very small details in a boat that make it 100% better for blue water than other boats.

Like

* Placement of the shrouds...(Do they get in the way on the foredeck and create a trip hazard?)

* Hand rails on the foredeck (many boats don't have these or have poorly placed hand rails and people have to hold on to the life-lines)

* Location of the water tank... (many boats like Benetaus and Hunters aren't made for Blue Water sailing, so the water tanks are placed out of the way to create more comfort space... This sets off the balance of the boat and sets off the displacement)

* A boat designed to reduce Fatigue. You asked why most Blue Water boats are more "tight" on the inside? One of the reasons is so that you don't have to struggle to move about when the water is rough. In a big "roomy" boat like a hunter, you will often be flying around everywhere when the boat starts swaying.

When the interior is designed well enough so you have easy things to hang on to, this makes a WORLD of a difference.

The most dangerous thing on the Ocean is when you're too tired to make correct decisions, and when you're struggling around the boat, this happens fast.

So this ia biggie. Same for the cockpit, some cockpit designs are much better at reducing crew fatigue.

* And finally, the right keel for Ocean passages. If you want your wife on there, get a boat with a big solid led keel. If you're in the Oregon region and you're planning on sailing south to Mexico then DEFINITELY get a big solid keel on your boat, makes you feel much safer, the boat won't keel over as much and if it ever comes out of the water your boat will pull itself upright.
(Unless giant wales have rammed your boat and you're taking on water )

I agree with Cam that Oregon is one of the scariest places to sail

That's my 2 cents, I'm still an amateur to sailing but I've sailed many rough days on the West coast, so I think it's good advice


Kacper
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2007
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Sounds like you need to smile death in the face and then go sailing haha
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2007
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I like the idea of shipping your boat to Australia or what not, that is a long passage to make from California, and if you split the shipping price with a buddy or even two the price shouldn’t be too bad ! I
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2007
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Quote:
Saasaan Wrote...
I like the idea of shipping your boat to Australia or what not, that is a long passage to make from California, and if you split the shipping price with a buddy or even two the price shouldn’t be too bad ! I

That's really embarassing. That boat would be cursed for the rest of it's life. If you ever do that you don't deserve to own a boat

Unless you're shipping a custom made 2 million dollar yacht designed for the Hobart race, that's just not acceptable!

Kacper
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  #28  
Old 01-26-2007
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I think that if Vans wants to do some serious cruising, either coastal, bluewater or day he has to find a boat on which his wife will be happy. Singlehandling is a great way to learn but it's no way to live. IMHO, the number one thing you should look for in a boat is something your wife will be happy in and that may not be a sailboat, because without her you are not going far.

Last edited by ebs001; 01-26-2007 at 07:49 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-26-2007
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EBS-

You know, that is a good point.

I personally would have no problem taking a Catalina or Beneteau (depending on the model on both) off the coast out there. Many, many people do it - but they (and I) probably have a LOT more experience than you do. From what I understand, Cam is ABSOLUTELY right about the waters out there. I also believe it is hard to make a harbor there in a storm (if you find yourself in one) so you will have to weather it at sea (which is not neccessarily a bad thing... but that is another thread). Still, it all depends on the boat.

I personally cannot imagine getting a boat my wife did not participate on... and LOVE! I think sailing would be come a drag in short order. If money is not a restricting factor, get a trawler. Nordhavn is TOP NOTCH (and one of my dream boats) and have done more circumnavigations that any other trawler I know of. They are the same people that made Mason's (the sailboats)... top notch yards, constrution, reputation, etc. I have met MANY of the people involved in their boats and have never been anything but impressed. It will give you a lot of living space and a very safe boat that will take the Oregon coast. Costs for a used one (46) start around the 500's. A new 50 is over a million and a 2 year wait. They are not cheap. ANother options would be Krogen. Argueably not as well built as the Nordhavn, but still a very tough boat and a little more of a comfortable liveaboard/cruiser.

If you want to stick with a sailboat (which I did), I see no problem in the mid 30's. You can learn to single a 35ish boat really easy. The hard part is just getting it in/out of the dock anyway. In general, the larger the boat, the more comfortable the ride and the easier it is to sail. My personal experience is that about mid 40's to low 50's, you really need a second hand... but this is more for docking than under way. Once your sails are set and you are "going", there is not much of a difference between a 30 footer and a 50 footer. With autopilot's, etc, you can do most of the stuff yourself without a big problem... especially if all the lines are led to the cockpit.

I have know some folks with a Tayana 37 up your way. Good, solid boat. THey weathered a storm off you coast on their way to SF and never batted an eye. Tayana's are relatively cheap... but again, the living accomodation is tight on them.

As far as your question about production boats making the gulf or islands or east coast, or whatever. Absolutely! Never a problem. That is really their design point... though some are less suited to it than others (depending on the model). Instead of beating up specific models on an open forum, you can PM me if that is your direction.

I would not be against Cam's advice on the blue water boat ASSUMING you have enough room and your wife is comfortable and enjoys it. Otherwise, I would really consider talking to people that live up that way and run the coast in a Catalina about it's positives and negatives in those waters.

The only thing you need to understand is that a blue water boat may be a "BIT" more forgiving in a storm than a coastal... but it is all still in the hands of the Captain that makes the difference. That is very important to understand. ANY sailor that has done much offshore on this site will tell you this: I would rather face a fierce storm in a hunter with an experienced captain and crew than a mild storm in a Valiant with an unexperienced captain and crew.

Get the captain knowledgeable and a good seaman. It might just save your life one day.
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  #30  
Old 01-26-2007
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Thanks for the continued info.

I am beginning to think that i would perhaps be happiest in the best quality boat even if it is only for light duty. I dont really see myself crossing oceans but trips down or up the coast are not out of the question. So, a good blue water boat used as a coastal and river cruiser soulds like a good plan.

Ive seen the Oregon coastal waters turn nasty fast and the last thing i want to be concerned with is the boat.

Any particular features that one should look for in such a boat? What brands are the stand outs and/or personal favs of forum members?
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