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Boat insurance survey

3K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  MikeOReilly 
#1 ·
Boat insurance questions come up often here. But the industry seems like such a black box of information. In an effort to shine some light on things I've set up a simple survey to find out what people are actually paying, based on location and type of coverage.

It's simple (very short) survey via Survey Monkey on boat insurance. The data is completely anonymous (not even I can see who the respondents are). The aim is to find out what general types of insurance people have, what people are paying, and whether you are happy with your current provider/broker.

I will report the results back here so we can all benefit.

 
#3 ·
One comment about how satisfied we are: it might be good to have a tick-box for "never filed a claim with them".
Also, the boxes required $ amounts refuse to accept a number with a decimal; took me a while to figure out what was "wrong".
:)
 
#6 · (Edited)
I've looked over the survey and am not comfortable putting some of the personal information it requires on the internet, even if it presumably can't be traced to me. I will share openly that my premium is a bit under 1% of the value of my boat, for hull, liability, environmental and hurricane haul. I don't recall the liability coverage, but it was a dictated level, well higher than the minimum marine policy amount, that my umbrella insurance policy required, before they would step in.

Looking over the survey itself, I think you'll need a very large 'n' to draw any statistical conclusion, especially to parse it by region. I'm also certain that the average consumer has no good idea what coverage they really have, beyond a hull number and liability number. There is a huge difference, for example, between replacement hull value and agreed upon hull value for both coverage and premium and I'll bet most never heard of the two. How many have ever heard of consequential damage, know what it means or whether their policy covers it or excludes it? It's a huge difference in whether the insurance company will pay for a loss.
 
#7 ·
Thanks Minnewaska. I'll try and incorporate your data in the compilation if I can. As you say, the survey needs as many respondents as possible.

Lots of limitations with this survey, I know. Given our numbers here on SN (and CF), there is no reason we can't come up with good data on who is paying what. But it will take people to step up with their information.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C82SBJP
 
#8 ·
.... Given our numbers here on SN (and CF), there is no reason we can't come up with good data on who is paying what. But it will take people to step up with their information.
I'm afraid there is reason to doubt the data, as I was trying to explain. You only ask for value of the hull and total premium. You won't know the particulars of what risks are covered or how that value is agreed to be paid (replace, repair or agreed), which can have significant impact on premium. Nor do you ask about liability coverage, limits or how that premium breaks down in the total.

Hull coverage cost will obviously vary with the value of the hull, its condition (which the survey also doesn't parse), its age, its complexity, etc. Liability will start to vary with the experience of the crew, because injuring another person or property or the environment isn't as directly correlated to the size of your own boat. On the other hand, the more people you can carry, the higher the possiblity you hurt someone aboard.

In the end, the rule of thumb I've experienced and heard of (here) is around 1% of hull value as an average for average coverage and average experience for both hull and liability. Maybe a bit more, if it's you're first boat like it, or a bit less if your more experienced. Much less is often much less coverage beneath the surface.

As an anecdote, my policy has stated value, which means if I lost it, they just pay me what we mutually agreed she's worth. It's still what I paid for her about 8 years ago and I know she's declined in value. My premium is a bit less than 1% of what I think she's really worth, but more like 2/3rds of a percent of what they have agreed to pay. Complex data, the survey can't sort out.

Hope that helps.
 
#9 ·
I've given you all the details, and appreciate ANY light that you can shine into the dark recesses of the "Insurance Black Hole."
 
#10 ·
Thanks eherlihy. I realize this survey is far from perfect (as stated right on the survey). It's as anonymous as I can make it. Despite the limitations I do think it can produce useful information if people are willing to share their info.

So please folks, if you haven't already filled it in, please spend a few minutes to do so.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C82SBJP

I will let it run for another day or so. Following that I will compile the results and provide them back for all to see.
 
#12 ·
I'm going to give this thread one more bump to see if we can get the numbers a bit higher. Responses are down to a trickle on the survey now, but there's still time.

Survey is anonymous, short, and just takes a couple of minutes. If you don't know something, skip it. I promise to bring the info back here once I sort it all out (hopefully tomorrow). The hope is to shine a bit of light on a topic that always seems like such a black box of information.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C82SBJP
 
#13 ·
My deepest thanks to those of you who took the time to fill in the survey. It makes for some interesting reading.

Compiled it, and ordered it in terms of Lowest to Highest (premium divided by insured value). The average comes out to about 1.7%. Hard to see a clear pattern or rates vs locations with this small a data set, but it appears the region with the highest rates are on the North American east coast.

http://helplink.com/CLAFC/wp-content...nce-report.pdf
 
#20 ·
This is exactly how I was hoping this data could get used GDR :). Insurance almost seems like a cult ... the bosses only want to deal with people individually, and we have a culture of not talking about finances, so no one really knows who's paying what. It keeps us in the dark.

There is quite a large range of rates being paid, even when the insurer is the same. Too much unknowns to make firm statements, but this certainly suggests some of us are paying a lot more than others for similar products. And the whole 1% of hull value rule-of-thumb seems not very accurate. The average comes out to 1.7%, but there are some who are way over this, and some way under.

This really begs for a far more detailed and deeper (more participants) survey.
 
#21 ·
I'm definitely above average, but not significantly. My cost went up substantially after Sandy. And I have had two claims - once when I was hit on my mooring when an upwind boat dragged during a squall and the second during Sandy. Even so, I find it hard to believe that some of those at the low end only have liability and not full hull coverage.
 
#26 ·
Jim-
"Even so, I find it hard to believe that some of those at the low end only have liability and not full hull coverage."
There are some states where failing to pay/maintain your auto insurance gets a letter from your insurer to your DMV within 24 hours, and the DMV immediately issues a suspension and puts your license plate on the "TOW ON SIGHT" list. If they're nice they give you 24 hours grace.
Then there are some states like Florida that way this is technologically impossible, despite the others that have been doing it for decades. They say that 1:10 drivers is unlicensed or uninsured in most states, but it goes up to 1:4 in Florida.
So if 25% of the car drivers are not insured, AT ALL, do you really expect better from boaters? Heck, everyone knows you can go boating with a case of beer and no lights and nothing will ever happen to you, right?
As to insurers....How they set valuations and premiums really is a "trade secret", because if they all did it the same way, none of them would be able to make more money than the next one did. That's the name of the game. Find ways to determine which cows can be milked, and which should be sent out for slaughter. When AIG went into the US auto insurance market, they were already an insurance giant. They charged 10% less than even Geico asked. Funny thing...one year later they were asking 10% more (a 20% hike) telling the regulators they had made some actuarial miscalculations.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some insurers were charging more for "colored hulls" especially brightly colored hulls, as their owners might be indulging in less-conservative boating. Or perhaps, giving a discount for having fixed biminis and cabin enclosures. Then again, maybe that should be surcharged, because you might go boating in the rain.(G)
 
#28 ·
a quick bit of feedback for the Mark II survey if there is one

I have been trying to get quotes for 3rd party/liability insurance from over 10 different companies and I have been given 2 reasons for refusal not one

Boat to old
We do not cover your cruising area (NW Caribbean)

The survey only allowed me to enter 1 reason why I had been refused
 
#31 ·
Thanks albrazzi. There is so much more info that could and should be collected. I'd truly appreciate others picking up the ball and expanding on this. Insurance is something nearly all of us spends money on, yet there always seems to be too little information available. The more info the better, I say!
 
#33 · (Edited)
Wow... I don't understand why your survey got Minne's panties in a twist, but - wow.. Perhaps he is an insurance guy, and feels that his livelihood is threatened? If you don't like the survey, offer CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, or ignore it.

Personally, I am grateful that you are making an attempt (however flawed) at figuring this out.

I am somewhere in the middle of the pricing maze (~1.8%). I have an OUPV, been insured for over 7 years, and have never filed an insurance claim. Also, I have had some major equipment failures which did result in claims while I was in command of school boats. I don't know if this last tid-bit is affecting my rates, but I am not working for that school anymore (my choice).
 
#34 ·
Folks, I went through the raw responses to look specifically at the liability-only responses. A few of you have asked me to help them identify where they might get liability-only. I've extracted all the liability-only responses from the raw data and placed them here in this table. Hopefully this will help those of us interested in this kind of service.

http://helplink.com/CLAFC/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Liability-only.pdf
 
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