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About to Set Sail - Documentation??

2K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  capta 
#1 ·
Hello,

I have a documentation question.
I purchased a 1975 Gulfstar 50 from US Auctions about 8 months ago. The boat was a little submerged and I got a great price on it. Now I'm about to sail it from North Carolina to Houston, Texas. I never got the paper work from US Auctions, but I did take possession of the boat and stashed it at a dock.
So, what documents will I need in case the Coast Guard comes up to check me out? I have a passport. Is that good enough? Do I need some sort of registration thing for the boat? I know I'll need to get some sort of Texas registration when I get back.
I've never gone sailing like this before. I'm slightly nervous, but I'll have a radio, life raft, gps, and plenty of food and water. I've sailed a 30 foot Yankee in Galveston Bay a few times, and I've been on other people's larger boats in Galveston Bay as well. I'm also taking my brother with me to keep watch while I sleep, but he's never been on a sail boat at all.

What else do you guys think I'll really need? Please don't list ridiculous things like a satellite phone, or that I need to have the boat hauled and inspected thoroughly. I think it looks pretty good. The engine was started and then winterized after being submerged. I haven't started it yet, but I definitely will have to start it before we can actually leave. So I'll obviously have a running engine before we cast off the dock lines.

I hope to make it to Texas by the end of June, and we're hoping we don't get caught in any really nasty storms. Is this a pretty good time of the year for sailing? I know hurricane season technically starts in June, but I've heard nothing ever really happens till the end of July or early August.

Thanks for reading my post. Any reasonable advice is appreciated!
Mike
 
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#2 ·
CG will want to see State Registry or USCG Documentation paperwork and proof of Boaters Competency.
Doesn't sound like you have any of these ..... keep a very low profile.
Good luck :eek:
 
#3 · (Edited)
The minimum is a notarized bill of sale .... & included within that bill of sale - a statement that boat is free and clear of encumbrances (free of 'liens', loans/mortgages, etc.); plus, a minimum of a state registration is required. Otherwise, there's no firm legal documentation to show that this boat is legally yours.
And then ... if all the above is legally satisfactory and 'in order', a complete set of 'safety gear' as prescribed by the USCG regs. - "USCG approved": PFDs, 'throwable' floatation device, whistles, sound device/horn, bell, safety flares, etc. etc. etc.

That you never received 'paperwork' from US Auctions ....... should be quite worrisome, and possibly indicative that your 'title of ownership' to this boat is 'unclear' - a remote possibility that to gain full legal ownership that YOU must pay all remaining 'encumbrances' due.
 
#4 ·
You have several issues that you need to take care of before you move that boat in my opinion.

First and foremost is getting legal ownership of the boat, which you don't have according to your post. No. Your passport is not good enough.

Next, you then need to get either CG documented or state registered. One or the other. You can't talk your way out of not having one. Especially not having proof of legal ownership and when you're heading through a heavy drug smuggling area of the U.S.

No survey after being partially submerged? Or at the very least someone who knows what he's looking at and why to check out the boat? You need to think about more than just the engine.

On an unknown boat, with unknown mechanical and/or structural issues, it may take way less than a hurricane to get you into serious trouble.

If your brother has never sailed, you should consider yourself solo.

Personally I think you should be more than "slightly" nervous to make this trip. Someone, I'm sure, will tell you otherwise if you hang around here long enough.
 
#5 ·
A copy of your application for USCG documentation is acceptable for a period of time. A few months iirc, while your original is being processed. Don't lie about it.

Partially sunken, haven't started the engine, just think it looks good, double handed with an unskilled watchman and have never done this before........... hmmm. I think there is more to worry about than the docs.
 
#7 ·
I think you don't know what you don't know, sorry, but this will be a foolhardy expedition even assuming the engine will run.

I guess you'll just have to 'sail it like you stole it'.... :p ;)
 
#8 ·
Why is a thorough inspection "ridiculous"?
Assuming you get the boat out to water, who is going to sail it when you're asleep?
Do you know how to navigate, how to read a chart, how to properly read a weather map?
Do you know where to go when a hurricane or tropical storm is coming your way?

I am still learning this stuff myself, but i have certain knowledge that I'm nowhere near ready to take an unknown boat on a 1500 mile trip.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
Boatpoker-
"CG will want to see ...proof of Boaters Competency" Not in the US. There's no federal requirement for that. Some States, New Jersey in particular, want to see your papers if you have an engine. But not the USCG, although they have great linerty in declaring a vessel "manifestly unsafe" and keeping it in port.

If the OP didn't receive a proper bill of sale and transfer of title when he paid for the boat--he needs to start making load noises and try to get them fast. Odds are the boat was either uninsured or more likely an insurance total, in which case the last owner may still have title to the boat. In theory, you have to surrender title to the insurer if they are paying you out and totaling the boat. But in practice? Some insurers don't give a damn about wasting money on papers. Either way, the place that sold it needs to be hit up before they say "Gee, we don't have records any longer".
Without a proper bill of sale and previous title, you are left at the mercy of each state. They each have their own rules as to whether "some old boat" can or can't be retitled when you've got no paperwork. This can be a long and expensive process, and in some states, it may be impossible to register the boat. If the auction house plays dumb, then you need to contact the state you want to register in, or the USCG Vessel Documentation Service if you are federally documenting it (which is never called "registering" to prevent confusion with state registrations). If the USCG intercepts the boat and there are no papers on board, for all they know it is a stolen vessel and your day will become much longer.
 
#11 ·
I don't know what's up on the Hudson, unless you were observed on the NJ side of the river. Unless I missed the memo, the USCG still has no federal laws to enforce requiring any competency, and neither did NYS. In Florida, there are state requirements but they grandfather the operators, i.e. if you are past a certain age, you're exempted. Just the folks born after a certain cut-off date need those papers, and if CBP is a state agency--there are so many drunks and other problems in Florida that they may well have mistaken you for a youngster.
In NJ, there is no grandfathering, no exemption for foreigners or neighbors from NY, just "Show me your papers!" I confess I haven't been following the news about paperwork (I've got it anyway) but I'd be shocked in NYS had gone the way of NJ. And somewhat surprised if the USCG, absent the presence of a state liaison, had any right to go looking for papers either.
It wouldn't be the first time that a uniform was posturing and demanding something they had no right to.
 
#12 ·
"CBP" is the US Customs & Border Patrol.

Over the last 25yrs I've been boarded many times by local cops, state cops, county cops, Michigan environmental cops, CBP and USCG. These were the first two times I had ever been asked that question by USCG and both within a few months of each other so I assumed that was now the rule.
 
#15 ·
Minne may have part of the answer, if boatpoker was flying the maple leaf or simply ended a sentence in "eh?" that might have tipped them off.(G)

But I did check the NYS laws. Those of us over a certain age, born before nineteen ninety something or other, don't need no stinkin' papers. The poor kids under age 21, the same ones who aren't allowed to buy beer any more, got shafted again.

Florida is similar. NJ doesn't give a damn, like the Roman soldier said to Christ "Son, I don't care who you are. No permit, no parade."

I don't know if the USCG has a policy, or formal agreements, or needs a physical liaison aboard, or just a formal request from a state, in order to enforce state boating laws. But there are also "for sure" no federal laws that I could find, for Colonials, or foreigners, or aliens, or even enemy aliens, that seem to require any boating competency. On or off the water.

Wearing your best poker face [no pun intended!] it might be best when asked for your papers to answer "I'll go below and get them. But you may need a translator, they're written in Canadian, eh?" and wait to see if the nice man can figure that one out.

Any answer other than "Is that Quebecois, or Canadian English?" is a sign that you can easily win the next round.(G)
 
#17 ·
Dunno. NJ is one of those states where they want EITHER your home state, or their own papers. Their original law did not provide for any acceptance of "federal" i.e. generic internet, certifications. Or different certifications from foreigners. (Hey, at least they spelled "boat" right.)

I don't think the USCG has any statutory powers to enforce foreign sailing regulations that way. When it comes to safety equipment (i.e. 3 un-expired flares for US boaters) then the usual law for foreigners is "You have to carry what your flag requires of you" but for competency certifications, or for vessel ratings (i.e. Offshore rated? Inshore?) there sure could be something buried in the laws, but nothing I found.
If you remember the old "Zero tolerance" days in the 90's, and the way it took a specific written statement from the Commandant to make it clear that a "secured" head meant exactly that...this sure sounds like a batch of gung-ho's got a bug up their butts, nothing more required.
One of the hardest jobs that military/police psychiatrists have, when screening potential applicants, is telling the thugs and bullies apart from the other applicants. It is a difficult job, a fine line, and all of those services have said as much.
Pretty much like the perennial problem of trying to end hazing in the service academies. They all claim they've been trying to eliminate it for three decades or so now, and yet it keeps cropping up. Deaths in elite military training programs still happen for the same reason: Some guys just can't get enough of playing God.
 
#18 ·
IMHO;

-Towing insurance. (It's actually an intelligence test)
-PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) Costs about $250.
-A crew member you can count on to help in a crisis.

Consider a near shore shakedown or five to test the systems and train your brother. Run the engine a bunch. Old engines run great, until they don't.

Good luck!
 
#19 ·
Considering your boat's bulkheads and much of the interior structure are made from veneer plywood, the amount of delamination that has occurred over the last 8 months or more, something like having the boat hauled and inspected thoroughly, certainly is a "ridiculous" thought, especially if you intend to transport that boat 800 miles or so.
As for your paperwork, if you do not have a "notarized" bill of sale in your hand, you do not own the boat. If it has been declared a "total loss" by an insurance company, even with a bill of sale, you may have a very difficult time registering it in some states and you will not be able to buy insurance on a boat that has already been declared a "total loss" by an insurance company (they do have an excellent information sharing network). Without insurance, you probably won't be getting into too many marinas and getting your boat hauled out in a proper facility may be out of the question.
You have to realize that if your boat has been declared a "total loss" it's just the same as for a car. You have basically purchased a wreck, the same as if you'd purchased a car at a wrecking yard, with all the accompanying headaches for registration and insurance.
I'd listen to those above about venturing out on this vessel, even with a good engine. There are a lot of things that could go wrong on a boat that hasn't been cared for for some time.
 
#20 ·
Considering your boat's bulkheads and much of the interior structure are made from veneer plywood, the amount of delamination that has occurred over the last 8 months or more, something like having the boat hauled and inspected thoroughly, certainly is a "ridiculous" thought, especially if you intend to transport that boat 800 miles or so.
As for your paperwork, if you do not have a "notarized" bill of sale in your hand, you do not own the boat. If it has been declared a "total loss" by an insurance company, even with a bill of sale, you may have a very difficult time registering it in some states and you will not be able to buy insurance on a boat that has already been declared a "total loss" by an insurance company (they do have an excellent information sharing network). Without insurance, you probably won't be getting into too many marinas and getting your boat hauled out in a proper facility may be out of the question.
You have to realize that if your boat has been declared a "total loss" it's just the same as for a car. You have basically purchased a wreck, the same as if you'd purchased a car at a wrecking yard, with all the accompanying headaches for registration and insurance.
I'd listen to those above about venturing out on this vessel, even with a good engine. There are a lot of things that could go wrong on a boat that hasn't been cared for for some time.
 
#21 ·
If you do not have a "notarized bill of sale" in your hand, you do not own that boat! That had best be your first "move"!
If, as has been suggested, your vessel has been declared a "total loss" by some insurance company, your vessel has the same legal standing as a wrecked car. It will be extremely difficult for you to get insurance on a vessel that has been declared a total loss. Without insurance, you may find staying in marinas very difficult and most boat yards also require insurance before they will let your boat on their property.
Of course, you are absolutely right to say that having the boat hauled and inspected thoroughly after it was 'a little submerged' is ridiculous. It is of no consequence at all that much of the interior of your boat is plywood, which has a tendency to delaminate after being submerged, even a little.
 
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