Coast Guard seeks opinion on scrapping LORAN system - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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Camaraderie, one thing for sure, even if shut down the Loran money will never get returned to the taxpayer.
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post #12 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan
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post #13 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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Could someone tell me who Loran is and why the coast guard wants to fire him? (smile).

I think I would buy a sextant before I bought a Loran Reciever.
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post #14 of 62 Old 02-05-2007 Thread Starter
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Innovation: GPS + Loran C

For those who want to read a thorough technical analysis, check out this url http://tl.gpsworld.com/gpstl/article....jsp?id=362922 The article entitled Innovation: GPS + Loran C was written on July 1, 2006 by James Carroll for GPS World. It is truly informative. It may help to convince or even change minds on the subject. I for one certainly hope the CG doesn't scrap the system.
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post #15 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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The LORAN lobby has done amazingly well. Although there are very few users left, LORAN is at best regional and far from global, there are no new receivers on the market, even the protagonists dont seem to dig deep enough to market receivers at competitive prices (no buyers). Nevertheless the FAA were paid by congress (63 million or so) to study using LORAN for aviation (although they have perfectly adequate back-ups in DME and VOR) - great lobbying. The USCG was thinking of putting the LORAN coverage back into CONUS - for the aviators. As a quid-pro-quo, the mariners are using the FAAs WAAS and ignoring the CGs differential system, so clearly what we all need is LORAN (or not). My next buy is a forward looking sonar and an AIS transceiver. LORAN never.
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post #16 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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Cam, my point was not to compare tax-funded systems vs subscription-based systems. My point was that, if space-based systems are so superior, why not federalize the TV and music services, paid for by the US taxpayer, and give it all to the whole world? It's great when it's GPS, but many deride the subscription-based space-borne systems, and cite all sorts of reasons why it's inferior. Rather duplistic. And forgive me, but you have the nerve, in the rediculously inflated price world of marine supplies, to say that a Loran receiver is expensive??? Come on. I'd say it's just trying to fit in! Sure GPS is a great technology, but I'd rather not have it as my only option, particularly when it's a front line military tool at present. Loran is regional, yep, as it was intended. The fact that everyone else gets to use GPS is a perk, but it's there for the military. The thing I find really weird is that so few private boaters used Loran, for cost or complexity, but they act like they can't live without GPS. I have both, and just got a sextant. I dunno. The Loran strikes me as kinda neat. Maybe I'm intrigued because I've had more experience with GPS. Still, I don't remember ever hearing anyone saying they were carrying 3!!! extra backup LORANS. Seems like one was all they needed. Guess you get what you pay for. My thinking is, you never abandon a solid backup system.
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post #17 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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Seabreeze..OK understand your position on Loran but still don't get the music/tv/satellite analogy. Having used loran extensively in the 70's and 80's I am aware of the function and limitations. Not much sense in carrying backup Lorans as they were not battery powered, were not cheap and were coastal systems and good coastal navigation skills were considered "the backup" at that time.
My point is that systems and infrastructure are put in place for USE by a client...whether it be GPS or Loran or the National Weather Service. In this country...very often the customer is the military when it isn't the general public. When the CUSTOMER no longer uses the system having made a choice to use something else...taxpayer money shouldn't continue to be spent on it. This has clearly happened with LORAN.
When you buy a sextant...I don't have to pay for it. When you want to have Loran...I do. That's the difference between my extra GPS's and your GPS/LORAN choice as well. So I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
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post #18 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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You don't have to worry about it I got the last loran C made
I use loran at work every day as do the other 200 boats in the harbor. but its more out of habit than need. Furuno was the last place you could get a loran. and as far as I know they quit making them as of this year. trust me you don't want one at 2000.00 a copie. For me Its good to have redundancy in the form of two seperate systems they are not as easy as gps but they are fairly accurate in the right hands 50 to60 ft aint bad considering the age of the system. The last time they said they were going to get rid of it they found out that it would cost more to tear down and dispose of the stations than it would to leave it running and maintain it for the next twenty years. and that was only about five years ago.I thought it was a scam by the gps manufacturers because it caused wholsale panic in a lot of the older fishermen that hadn't converted any of their way points to lat and long. alot of gps units got sold that year i guarantee. Cam alot folks still use it in the gulf its like a language of sort. people have been communicating possitions in TD's for so long thats its hard to learn to speak differently. If Im ever in trouble or one of my friends are in trouble and we can get our position out in TD"S then there are about 100 people who know not only exactly where you are but could drive right to you with out even thinking about it. the coast guard is only people we would give a position to in lat. long. alot of the rigs and patches are refered to by their TD's. It is antiquated but does work and quite afew people down here still use it as their primary means of navigation just because they cant get past the fact that when your going west the numbers go up on that new fangled GPS DINASAURS ARE NOT EXTINCT

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Last edited by soul searcher; 02-05-2007 at 07:44 PM.
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post #19 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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Matt/Joni...interesting post...didn't realize there were 100 people left using it!
Guess it is kinda like regular TV vs. HD TV...I suppose at some point, the government will take back the regular TV frequencies and the 100 or so people living in the Gulf will have to adjust to that too and get one of them new fangled sets. Probably somewhere around the turn of the next centruy!
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post #20 of 62 Old 02-05-2007
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I know your kiddin but when you figure in fishermen and the oil fields there really are thousands of units in use.
I heard of tv thats like a radio with pictures right?

Matt

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