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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #1  
Old 02-17-2007
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Interesting photos.

Try this - it might make the armchair by the fire seem more comfortable. http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/07/0124/
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Old 02-18-2007
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I have seen these photos before and they are amazing.

I'm curious to ask those on the board that are more experienced, are conditions like these at all survivable in a smaller typical cruising sailboat?
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Old 02-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicAdventure
I have seen these photos before and they are amazing.

I'm curious to ask those on the board that are more experienced, are conditions like these at all survivable in a smaller typical cruising sailboat?
Yes it is but at the time you don’t think so. The trip I did where I was caught in 90 knots with waves larger then 45 feet, at least I thought they were that large but after they are higher then your mast it's imposable to say how high they are, was done in conditions like the conditions in the photos.

That trip lead to my obituary being published and some boating magazines printed very nice articles along the lines of no mater how carefully you plan it's possible to be overwhelmed. A newspaper reporter who covered the event published a book about my trips after that storm. That trip was done with a Chance 30-30 and she started coming apart during the storm. I lost the headstay, tiller, stormjib and trysail during the storm. After I rolled the boat I also lost the use of the engine and SSB. The loss of the radio is one of the things that lead to the belief I was lost.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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Old 02-18-2007
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EPIC....I think the last photo in that group was "photoshopped". But as to survival in those conditions in a small boat...the answer is yes.
If you read the "perfect Storm" which was about the storm of the century, you will recall that there was a Bristol 40 caught up in that offshore. The participants were ultimately airlifted off that boat (which is a whole nother story with disputed versions!) but the boat itself washed up on the Eastern shore of Maryland some weeks later indicating that a well found boat can take much more pounding than most people can! Robert is not most people!!
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Old 02-18-2007
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Thought that was a Westsail 32 cam?
Regards,
Red
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Camaraderie,
I have seen the series before and it represents the growth of the storm. I hate to contradict you but if my memory serves me the last photo is real. Did you see the photos taken from the ship that measured the world’s highest wave? It makes this group of photos look like a nice day in the park.

My trip in October of 1976 wasn’t very much different then the sailboat in the perfect storm. The only real differences were that I was alone and both my boat and I were picked up after the storm. The boat was sinking at the time of my rescue so I never would have made it back to dry land but I didn’t want to give up on the boat without a good fight so I didn’t take to raft. Being alone made things much tougher then you can imagine. A lot of things were happening that required my attention so sleep was a real problem. In the end it was the lack of sleep that made me give up. Nobody can bail with a bucket 24 hours a day and also make repairs at the same time. But I did get a new headstay up and was sailing when I got rescued but the water was winning the battle.

To the north of me was the 590 foot 15,028 ton Sylvia L Ossa with a crew of 37. She didn’t do so well and sank with a loss of all hands sometime between the 13th and the 15th of October. I didn’t know that had happened and it turned out that her sinking so near to me and my loss of radio contact lead to the belief that I had also sunk.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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Old 02-18-2007
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Robert...you could very well be right. It just had that "look" to me as the color pallette in the wave. There is no doubt however that waves CAN get that big as recent satellite data has shown with rogue wave analysis.
Your "adventure" and fortitude in the face of adversity continue to amaze me especially in light of some of the stories of rescues in benign conditions we've bn reading about lately.

Loewe...you're absolutely right. Satori was indeed a Westsail32...My bad!
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Old 02-18-2007
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Did the boat in the serie of photos eventually sink?

I assume that unless there was engine failure and/or it developed structural damage and was taking on water it probably continued on....
__________________
Mark
Now based in Barbados.... and wait for it.....the boat is too!

Waymar - Jeanneau, Attalia
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Old 02-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymar83
Did the boat in the serie of photos eventually sink?

I assume that unless there was engine failure and/or it developed structural damage and was taking on water it probably continued on....
She is still in service and that bit of inclement weather in 1987 was nothing unusual for her because she did the North Atlantic winter trips when the Great Lakes were frozen in the winter. This is a cut and past about her.

“The first of three sister ships to be constructed for Misener Transportation Ltd., St. Catharines, ON; this Great Lakes and ocean gearless bulk carrier was built as hull # 256 by Govan Shipbuilders Ltd., Govan, Scotland. The new bulk carrier was launched January 28, 1983 and christened as the Selkirk Settler on April 15, 1983. The Selkirk Settler cleared Scotland on April 25, 1983 on her maiden voyage to Canada arriving at the Welland Canal on May 5th. This bulker and her two sister ships were built to give Misener Transportation (as well as the Misener managed and crewed Pioneer Shipping Ltd.) the capability of operating year round. The plan was to operate these vessels on Great Lakes trades during the navigation season, then ocean trades during the winter months. The other two sister ships were the Canada Marquis sailing under the Misener banner and the Saskatchewan Pioneer sailing under the Pioneer Shipping banner. Of note; the Canada Marquis now sails as the Birchglen owned by Canada Steamship Lines, Montreal, QC and the Saskatchewan Pioneer as the Voyageur Pioneer owned by Voyageur Marine Transport Ltd., Ridgeville, ON.

The Selkirk Settler was built with private air-conditioned rooms. The vessel is powered by a single Sulzer model 4RLB76 two stroke cycle, single acting 4 cylinder 10,880 b.h.p. (8,098 kW) diesel engine burning intermediate grade fuel oil; the power being fed to a single controllable pitch propeller in a Kort nozzle giving the vessel a rated service speed of 13.8 m.p.h. She is equipped with a 1,240 h.p. (923 kW) KaMeWa bow thruster. Seven hatches equipped with McGregor hydraulic hatch covers with automated cleating service 7 holds where the vessel is capable of carrying 33,824 tons (34,367 mt) at her maximum draft of 32’ 08” (9.962m) and 25,875 tons (26,291 mt) at the Seaway draft of 26’06” (8.08m). Cubic hold capacities include 39,500 net tons of coal (standard measurement for coal, equivalent to 35,268 tons or 35,834 mt)*, 35,195 (35,760 mt)* of wheat, 33,203 tons (33,736 mt) of corn or rye, 29,125 tons (29,593 mt) of barley and 26,776 tons (27,206 mt) of oats. Other capacities include 1,363 tons (1,383.5 mt) of intermediate fuel oil and 124 tons (126 mt) of diesel oil. The vessel’s hull was built to Lloyd’s 100 A1, Ice Class 3 classifications and strengthened for heavy cargoes (with holds 2, 4, & 6 or 1, 4, & 7 remaining empty).

Much of the Selkirk Settler’s first season was spent in the grain trade from Thunder Bay, ON. The vessel’s first overseas trip was a cargo of grain clearing Duluth, MN on December 8, 1983 for Limassol, Cyprus. She then returned to Baie Comeau, QC on February 17, 1984 where she loaded for Tilbury, England; returning to the Seaway and Great Lakes trading on April 2, 1984. Her second winter saw the Selkirk Settler load at Milwaukee, WI in December of 1984 bound for Leningrad arriving January 9, 1985. She then later ran European grain from Hamburg to Leningrad. Other ports and countries visited in the late ‘eighties included Casablanca, Baltimore, Philadelphia, France, and Belgium. From 1987 until 1991, the Selkirk Settler sailed under the flag of the Isle of Man reflecting a change away from her original Canadian registration.

In 1991, ownership of the Selkirk Settler was transferred to Federal Navigation, Detroit (division of Fednav Ltd., Montreal, QC); then to Ubem S.A., Antwerp, Belgium (managed by Fednav Ship Management Ltd., London, England; also a division of Fednav Ltd., Montreal, QC). For 1991, the vessel was renamed Federal St. Louis sailing under the flag of the Bahamas marking the beginning of a new phase in her career; that of an ocean trader. The bulker was renamed Federal Fraser in 1992 flying the flag of the Philippines. Ownership of the vessel changed several times in 1994, first passing to Primera Ship Management (managed by Nuk Maritime Corp), then Crimson Line of Japan, and finally Koyo Line also of Japan; all the while remaining under long term charter to Fednav. Ownership changed again in 1995 passing to Prominent Star Ltd., Hong Kong (managed by Univan Ship Management Ltd.) with the vessel’s registration changing to Hong Kong. M & N Shipping Corp. of Japan acquired the vessel in 1998 changing the vessel’s registration to Panama; then changing the bulker’s name to Fraser in 2001. From 1998 onward, the vessel was chartered to Fednav International Ltd. (division of Fednav Ltd.), Montreal, QC.

Throughout this tenure as an ocean trader, the vessel continued to be a regular visitor to the Great Lakes. On August 28, 2002; the Fraser grounded while attempting to leave Duluth, MN in heavy fog and laden with grain for overseas. The vessel was freed late on August 29th with no apparent damage as the Fraser had grounded in silt.

On October 25, 2002; Canada Steamship Lines Inc., Montreal, QC announced the acquisition of the Fraser from Fednav Ltd., Montreal; who, in turn, had acquired the vessel from M & N Shipping with the expressed purpose of selling the vessel to Canada Steamship Lines. The Fraser was reflagged Canadian and departed Antwerp, Belgium in late November bound for Belledune, NB. From Belledune, the Fraser proceeded to Quebec City arriving December 10th. The vessel’s name was officially changed to Spruceglen (2) and registered Canadian on December 11, 2002. The Spruceglen arrived in Toronto, ON with a load of sugar from Quebec City for Redpath in Toronto on December 18. The vessel spent her first winter lay up in Toronto where various repairs were completed including the painting of stack to CSL colors. The hull color remained black in keeping with CSL’s color scheme of black hulls for the bulkers and red for the self unloaders. The Spruceglen departed Toronto on April 1, 2003 in ballast to Duluth to load grain. Her trade routes are now predominately on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence River with some ocean trading done during the winter months after the seasonal closing of the St. Lawrence Seaway.”
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Old 02-18-2007
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I recently had a converstion with the first mate of a bulk carrier who described a north atlantic storm to me. Waves were sweeping over his shi much as you see in those pictures and everything on deck that was not welded on, was removed by them. All life boats, all deck equipment, everything. The toughest part for them was that their engine would stall as they were climbing the faces of the waves and have to be restarted immediately before the ship got sideways and rolled! This is a 700 foot ship!
he said that the engineers lost track of the number of times they restarted, somewhere near one hundred. Eventually they made the lee of the south shore of the gulf of St. Lawrence and safety but there was no one on board who expected to live through that night.
The Upside? In the three years following, he has never encountered any weather that he found the least bit frightening by comparison!
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