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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2007
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SF...and there's 3 experienced captains that lost their lives off Oregon in a cat making the same "professional" decision back in December. I think decisions like this show a lack of professionalism.
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2007
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Multihulls are inherently unsafe

I have owned a sailboat pretty much all the time since 1978. Before I purchased my first boat I did extensive research on sailing and came to the conclusion that sailing a multihull craft offshore was inherently unsafe. I feel the same way today. The death rate for offshore sailing in cats and tris is dramatically higher than in ballasted monohulls.
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Old 02-24-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaunclm
I have owned a sailboat pretty much all the time since 1978. Before I purchased my first boat I did extensive research on sailing and came to the conclusion that sailing a multihull craft offshore was inherently unsafe. I feel the same way today. The death rate for offshore sailing in cats and tris is dramatically higher than in ballasted monohulls.
Pardon me, but you're full of S***!

Can you state any facts to back your statements... or are you just blowing smoke... Multihulls are just as safe, if not safer than monohulls. Most of the major accidents that you hear of involving multihulls are racing multihulls... and that is like comparing the safety of commericial airline safety to that of small racing planes... apples and oranges.
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Last edited by sailingdog; 02-27-2007 at 02:03 AM.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2007
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Maye I'm wrong but isn't ther more than one way to get to Annapollis?
I wander what the owner was thinking, maybe he left out the after you get to Lauderdale part.
Mono or multi no one in their right mind should be sailing that route this time of year.

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  #15  
Old 02-24-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Pardon me, but you're full of SH!t.

Can you state any facts to back your statements... or are you just blowing smoke... Multihulls are just as safe, if not safer than monohulls. Most of the major accidents that you hear of involving multihulls are racing multihulls... and that is like comparing the safety of commericial airline safety to that of small racing planes... apples and oranges.

Itís tough to get an apple to apples comparison because there are many more mono-hulls crossing oceans then multi-hulls and the multi-hulls tend to stay with the better routes. Some estimates have been made however real solid numbers are hard to come by. Also the people intending to push their luck more often then not select a mono-hull. But the number I use for offshore accidents comparing mono to multi is 0.2% for multi-hulls and 0.05% for mono-hulls. Also keep in mind that since the fifties the percentage of multi-hulls having problems has decreased as the design and construction has improved but I still think as a percentage of the boats out there more trans-ocean multi-hulls have problems then mono-hulls.

Does this mean the multi-hull is domed offshore? I donít think so but for my money if I wanted to push it I would do it in a mono-hull. People who want to take advantage of all the comforts the multi-hull offers seldom do the type of trips that come to grief because they exercise more care about route and season and they really take their time and enjoy the advantages the multi-hull has to offer.

Very often you hear that a multi may have a problem but they wonít sink so itís OK. What does that mean? Itís OK to depart in a boat that is itself the substitute for a liferaft? Itís true a mono-hull will sink if you fill it up but you are more likely to survive a crossing in a mono-hull then multi-hull if things get rough. As a matter of fact I think you are four times more likely to survive with a mono-hull then a multi-hull if the crossing becomes a survival situation because of wind and sea condition.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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"Pardon me, but you're full of SH!t.

Can you state any facts to back your statements... or are you just blowing smoke... Multihulls are just as safe, if not safer than monohulls. Most of the major accidents that you hear of involving multihulls are racing multihulls... and that is like comparing the safety of commericial airline safety to that of small racing planes... apples and oranges."

You made exactly my point that sailing a multihull is like flying a small racing plane.

Let me add one more consideration taking a multihull into cold water without a liferaft is suicidal. The thought that hanging on to an inverted hull is in any way related to the safety of a liferaft is ludicrous.

Sailing multihulls of any stripe is an order of magnitude more dangerous per mile sailed than a monohull.

If there were anywhere near as many multihulls as keel sailboats there would be worldwide cry to ban the things.

Last edited by Chaunclm; 02-24-2007 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-25-2007
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I don't think either side here has stated anything but opinion. Where are the facts guys...if there are none then you can take your opinions and share nthem as such....but don't go making outrageous claims on either side unless you can cite something.
My opinion is that I would never take a cat off shore as I perceive they are more likely to get into trouble based on what I saw during Ivan. That is a personal opinion and my guess is the guys that deliver cats from S. Africa might have a different one.
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Old 02-25-2007
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It seems he had a regular delivery of cats from France to Florida and this was his third trip within a year. In his words
"* I have experienced truly bad conditions out there and discovered how to deal with them – (nice to know should push come to shove again)



* Always, I will go to extreme lengths through planning to avoid bad weather, but on occasions it is karma – being prepared is the key. "
He planned to go via the Azores and was 200 miles NE of Bermuda. It looks to me that he may well have been taking the southern route or largely so, and possibly going via the Bahamas rather than straight to Annapolis. However others will know more of the theoretical and actual route than I do.
In the storm conditions experienced as well as being difficult for any type boat, the cat a 39' would I understand be at risk of being rolled or pitchpoled, so a drogue or sea anchor would be required. That seems the accepted view amongst cat sailors. Whether a new boat on a delivery carried either I don't know.
The two with survival suits survived, the third without sadly did not.
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Old 02-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
...I don't think either side here has stated anything but opinion...
I agree - there have been no facts presented for either case.

I've found that insurance companies hire the best statisticians and actuaries - and that they do their job relatively well. I think it would be fair to say that if insurances companies charge similar amounts per $1K of insured hull value for a monohull vs. a multihull then I would be willing to accept that as solid evidence of seaworthiness even if I didn't like the results.

Having stated that, I must admit that I have no idea of what actual rates are between the two, all I have are rough estimates for "boat insurance" running at about 2% of total value and no mention is made of differentiating hull types.
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Old 02-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
That is a personal opinion and my guess is the guys that deliver cats from S. Africa might have a different one.
Very broadly speaking, I think the only catamarans designed from day one for oceanic conditions (which means in catamaran terms no patio-style sliding doors and a very different approach to the bridgedeck undersides) are designed in South Africa. Of course there are exceptions, but that particular country seems to build them to an entirely different reality than the sort common to North American coastal waters, most of which give me the creeps.

Maybe it's because they have to consider 8,000 mile deliveries right after launch that makes them a little safer?
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