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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 03-06-2007
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sailingdog
regarding why nobody thought of that..well i thought of that..and am amazed why they havent..but it turns out i was wrong..they have and the lifeboats and similar boats mentioned in the posts do exist..but serve specific rescue functions. However i am still suprised why they didnt do it in small boats. I came up with several possible reasons:..maybe nobody cares..or is not interested..or because the cost benefit ratio is not rewarding from a buissiness /comercial point of view..or maybe the statistics dont support the "need" for it...or mmaybe those who would like to have such a boat are in no position to make it happen..or their needs are never expressed..or never reach those who design and manufacture boat...etc..etc..i can keep on giving a lot more reasons..but then what?..so what?..who cares?..ON THE OTHER HAND..why did Etap design their model?..i.e. an unsinkable boat as a sailing boat, or Bostnon Whaler as a power boat?..before they did them , and when they decided to do them..would your question/comment as to why nobody "thought of it before?"..i'm sure someone did ..but untill some hade the committment, will, and recources to do it did it become a reality. Thats how progress, or even simply fullfilling certain peoples need do changes/innivations/inventions/discoveries occur. But comments like yours are also important to keep things in check and in order..but then someone will always come along and have a different idea/opinion/criticism..etc..so where do you draw the line?
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2007
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regarding why im posting this in a sailing site...i do have an explanation..as i mention in my first post, i was introduced to this site/forum as a result of a search i made using the keyword "unsikable"..and it was a post that had some interesting discussion, and the poster recieved quite a bit creticism (and im not sure why)..just like whats happening now...ALSO..i decided to post my idea here after reviewing the site..i found it to contain some comment that are highly pertinent to my idea/project..and im glad i did..because im having a lot of usefull input..AND ALSO because the best peopple who would know about self-righting/selfbailig are sailors..and they come up with all sorts of ingenious ideas that i might adapt to my idea...AND LASTLY..because when i mentioned the criteria "multiple means of propulsion"..one of which is a smple rig to enable the boat to sail!!!!..that besides another simple good old fashioned oar or yullah. I didnt that earlier because it will open a whole new discussion or attack of creticism. I have thought of almost all the details of my idea/project...and just couldnt bring it all at once..so i do need the input of people with ex it experince in sailing. So yes it will be a motor boat with sailing capabilities ( and not the other way round..e.g like the Macgregor for example)...it will be motor boat that could be rigged to sail if needed.
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2007
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I don't think anybody's being too nasty... but sailingdog had a good point, let me rephrase: boats are each designed for a different job, some features overlap, some do not, a boat that does everything is wasting its capabilities (and money spent on it) unless it is actually doing everything. The Coast Guard (All Praise be Unto Them) actually need that capability, very few others need more than half your list to do everything they need or want to do, and do it safely. If you're looking to design the next great rescue boat, more power to you (and make sure Tartan gets his cut!), if you're looking to make a marketable addition to the 'boat candystore', think it through a bit more (esp. 'target customers').

And while you're designing boats, i'm looking for a good one for a New Haven Sharpie about 15-17 ft, centerboard (or twin keels if you're up for a challenge) and traditional cat-ketch rig (or is it a 'schooner'?)

Good luck
Mike
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"... the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze." - Richard Bode, First you have to row a little boat (pg. 94)
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2007
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zmfmd...thanks for the re-statement. Would hate to see boats get like seatbelts...we have enough regulations already. In answer to your question...no I would not pay a 20% premium for unsinkability or self bailing. My boat is already self righting. I have manual and electric bilge bumps and insurance a liferaft and EPIRB in the most unlikely circumstance that she would sink. Those features are more appealing to the small boat and day sailer market where they are quite commonly found.
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2007
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Zmfmd,
The article I mentioned was in Professional Boatbuilder issue number 104 on page 42. The author is Naval Architect Rolf Eliasson and to fully appreciate it you also need to look at page 11 in the February/March issue which is number 105.
Good luck with the project,
Robert Gainer
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2007
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Generally, most manufacturers aren't going to build a boat that is going to cost them more, if they really can't sell it for more. The features you are looking for aren't really of interest to the general public if they're going to interfere with the cost or utility of the boat.

Equipping a power boat with an auxiliary propulsion mode—like a sail—will increase cost, but not really increase its functionality.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2007
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Tartan34c
thanks for the info..also i scanned the SNAME and RINA sites..wow..full of info ..got dizzy just looking around..i never new such information details existed..ill need to research their sitemap carefully as i feel its way above my head..unless you can give a shortcut.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2007
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
Most of what you are describing is manifested in the current life-boats carried on chemical tankers. How you adapt that for a wider audience is beyond my pay grade.
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Old 03-07-2007
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Tartan34C will become famous soon enough
For your duel propulsion maybe use diesel electric. A diesel generator for a main and batteries for backup. The weight of batteries will act as ballast and you can have the same technology that is used currently in small boas such as Elco.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2007
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guys, i appreciate your input..but most of it is simply saying forget it!..or its impracticle or undowable.
you may all be right from your point of view/needs.
please read my first post..i will clarify it a little more..my main objective is to design a 20 footer boat that that is powered with a 40 hp outboard..the target is the majority of fishermen all over the world, particularly the developing countries that are on their own once offshore..to most any mishap means death from drowning or exposure..no assistance expected in these areas..
i'm not trying to design a life boat.
i researched the statistics as best as i can and came up with the conclusion that a boat with criteria i mentioned would save hundreds of lives.
my research indicated that most fishermen use a 20 footer and thats why im starting with this size....i feel with some modifications i can transform such a boat to fullfill my criteria. The difficulty im having is with selfrighting issue.
If i were to construct a boat from scratch i would have no difficulty doingit..very much in line with what Tartan34c described..but that would be too costly at this stage..and i need to prove it in a real life model and test before starting manufacturing it...so my problem right now..and what im seeking assistace is : how would you modify a 20 ft v-shaped planner hull into a selfrighting boat. Forget about the other criteria because i already have it worked out. One idea is to add a "bridgelike" semicircular structure on top, that is fully-yet differentially bouyant to one side (in addition to the calculated ballast at the bottom)..once capsized the upper bouyant structure would turn the boat enough to one side to have the ballest take over to righten the boat...just one of many possible ideas that at present is most appealing to me. Tartan34c..your this your feild of speciality..what do you think?
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