First aid

[kmclarke]

Hello All.
Well , we did it . We are now the proud owners of the 44 Kelly Peterson Golondrina. I went down to Fl to look at her in Feb and there were no great surprises so we bought her. We are currently repowering so if anyone needs a perkins 4-154 we have one with a good head, injectors and a 3 year old heat ec=xchanger for sale.

We will be moving her North to NC in May to get her out of the Hurricane zone (if there is such a thing) and then we will pick her up in Oct 07 (194 days to go ).Then we intend to cruise the Bahamas ,Cuba ,Turks and Caicos and DR. I would like very much to here from anyone who has done similar routes , because at this point we have no firm route and would like to go the easiest route for the first year while we get used to the boat.

Has anyone taken a first aid course that is oriented towards the marine environment? Is there a significant difference between that and an industrial first aid course? What are you using for first aid kits ? We will have two energetic boys on board so band aids and polysporin are a must , but what else?

Thanks for the help, the opinions and advice I recieved here made me better able to make an informed decision on the first part. Now I need the rest of the info so don't hold back.
Cheers Kevin.

[camaraderie]

KM...Congrats and good luck with the refit. The boat is a great cruising platform that will take you anywhere.
We did the whole Bahamas south route to Grenada in 2004-5 and would be happy to discuss any particulars as you plan your trip. First suggestion I would have for you is to get charts for the trip AND Bruce VanSandts Gentleman's Guide to Passages South which gives great detail on the route that is easiest. You do not need to follow his passagemaking advice bt the routing detail and anchorage chartlets are worth the price of the book.
Also suggest Steve Pavlidas' Turks and Caicos guide which gives you D.Republic advice too.
Suggest you start a separate thread under Cruising when you're ready for passage advice. Good luck!

[kmclarke]

Thanks Cam
Iwill be taking you up on that offer.
KC

[sailingdog]

Most industrial first aid courses aren't really appropriate for bluewater cruising. They are geared towards first aid, where hospitals and medical personnel are available on a relatively short timeframe.

Marine and wilderness medicine courses are designed more for situations where immediate and short-term medical assistance aren't available. These courses will tend to teach not only the basic first aid techniques, but also how to stabilize patients in the case of more serious injuries—that will require medical treatment—as well as how to treat some more serious injuries and use some gear that is not found in an ordinary first aid kit—like SAM splints, butterfly sutures, etc.

Adventure Medical Kits are a good brand of medical kit with supplies for longer-duration voyages. The kits are separated in components by function, and come with a pretty solid book on basic first aid and medical treatment. The company's founder, Dr. Eric Weiss, just has published a pretty good book on Marine Medicine. Another good source is Ocean Medix.

[brianbourgeois]

Any time you are more than a couple of hours away from a hospital you will want a good suture kit and the ability to use it.

[Idiens]

Two older recommendations were: the Authorised Manual of the Red Cross Society and the International Medical Guide for Ships.

[Looking]

While I agree with the suture kit, I am very weary of the Prescription First Aid kit on the OceanMedix site. I am a trauma medic, and while it may be that Canadian laws are different. The only thing in the list of 'prescriptions' that is actually a prescription item is the epinephrine, or 'EpiPen'. And generally, if you are in danger of Anaphylactic shock, most commonly bee stings and peanuts, you are going to know about it before hand. That said... I would definitely carry on on board while cruising, because you don't know what new substances you may be exposed to that you are presently unaware. I mean really... Malox? Ibuprophene?

Other than the $60 bag and the EpiPen (which you could get from your family physician) everything else on the list could be purchased for well under $300.

Also, the 'Marine' AED? Simply an ordinary AED and very small oxygen bottle packaged in a watertight case. Again, purchase separately, and get a 'C' cylinder tank w/regulator, mask and BVM w/reservoir (Bag Valve Mask) for $1,000 bucks less.

Like anything else, research. Unless I am mistaken in my understanding of the products on the website... this stuff is outrageously expensive.

A very good, complete first aid kit, and I mean complete, less pharmaceuticals, can be purchased for well under $500. This includes, hard collars, BVM, pocket mask, suction, etc.

Suturing is another matter completely and requires very specific training. Same thing for starting an IV. $545 for some saline and IV bore needles is again, hugely overpriced.

IMHO, and I don't know what Industrial First Aid course you are referring to sailingdog, but IFA courses typically cover very serious accidents. I highly recommend the 'Industrial First Aid course' as a primer, followed by specific, water and wilderness training. The IFA course is designed around the 'Golden Hour' rule, to stabilize and transport to medical aid, developed during the Korean and Vietnam wars. And regardless as to whether medical aid can be received within that hour, any definitive treatment can only be attempted after necessary critical interventions have been completed, and the patient is stable. A typical IFA course here in British Columbia, Canada is 40 hours of very intense classroom work followed by a 3 hour written, and 3 hour practice exam.

Take the course. You will have a much better idea of what you will need after you have the knowledge. Don't rely on a 'first aid book' and some supplies. In an emergency you need to know what to do... you don't have time to look it up in a book.

[T34C]

IMHO stick to the basics. Once you have the basics down you can add to your knowlegde base and you first-aid kit. I have carried and used things like SAM splints and, frankly, with 5 min. a couple pieces of wood and a roll of tape you can do a much better job imobilzing a wound or fracture than using some of the gadget splints. Things like sutures would be great, but most people are not going to know what to do with them. I generally have a skin stapler and super glue in my first-aid kit. While not pretty the stapler is fast, easy to use, and best of all you can't do any real damage with it even in a seaway.

Most First Responder level courses will teach basic life support, basic wound stabilization, use of things like oxygen, and then how to package and ship a patient. The stabilization that you would use prior to loading a patient into an ambulance is going to be pretty similar to what you might use while underway. Again, IMHO, I think that is a great place to start. FYI, there was a thread about First-Aid kits that you might want to search for as it went into a lot of detail on this subject.

[hellosailor]

There was recently a long good thread about offshore med kits either here on on the www.cruisersforum.com site. The main difference between industrial first aid and offshore first aid, is that offshore you need to plan on being 2-10 days away from any type of outside aid. "Wilderness first aid" is about the only similar topic. You may need to stabilize wounds, administer antibiotics, seasickness meds, etc. for several days even if you can call for help, because it may take that long to get a ship to you and helos have a surprisingly short range, especially in bad wx.

Commercial kits can give you a good start (and a well organized case) at a price, but everyone still wants to do extensive mods on them, to fit personal needs and situations. For the basic "every day stuff" the $10-20 kits from WalMart or Costco are a REAL bargain. Using these for the little things lets you keep the "injuries" box closed and dry for more serious problems.

There are also some new products with names like "Quik Clot" that are sold as a powder, or a pre-impregnated bandage, designed to stop bleeding on wounds. They're absolutely incredible, invaluable additions that are just being sold in pharmacies in the last two years now.

[sailingdog]

Looking—

That is exactly my point. IFA is for "golden hour" first aid, but really doesn't cover the type of stabilization treatment that wilderness first aid courses then to teach. IFA courses are generally for situations where emergency medical aid is relatively available... that you can call 911 and get a response... unlike most wilderness and marine medical situations, where the nearest assistance may be over 24 hours away.

I also recognize that much of what OceanMedix offers is a bit overpriced, but many people want a one-stop solution. The antibiotics are prescription medications in the US. BTW, IMHO, an Epi-Pen is not really all that useful in the case of anaphalactic shock situations as it really only buys you about fifteen more minutes before further treatment is required IIRC.