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Bayfield 32C Survey Results :)

9K views 27 replies 14 participants last post by  camaraderie 
#1 ·
Hey guys,...

Well, we had the survey done yesterday on the boat we've been in love with. To updated you, here it is again:

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

Here's how it went down.

1st. I wasn't really happy with the surveyour. Paul Dupre. He greeted me very ackwardly and went about his business without telling me anything he was doing. I felt practically ignored the whole time :(

I figured this was just the type of person he was(inward), because he still seemed like a good surveyour, he was looking at every inch of the boat and making lots of notes.

In the end he gave us a summary of everything that needed looking after,
but he talked quite quickly, used lots of technical terms... ie: engine water lift??. And didn't really clarify things.

Over all, the things he said were minor. A couple of throughull hoses for salt water intake for the head and galley needed to be replaced(the galley one will not be used anyway, except maybe for the watermaker we plan to install)

Also the battery straps had to be replaced, as they are made of stainless steel :eek: Big no no.

That's all.

The rest of the boat is in great condition. He said hes never seen a Bayfield in this superb condition.

....

Now, whether Im happy with this 100% or not? Well, not really. When I asked him if he thought what we were paying for the boat was a good price he said yes, but he didn't seem to be applied to that answer more than like a casual scratch of an itch on his head.... like we were suppose to figure it out on our own.

So, I was slightly pissed off with the survey, but, more or less satisfied the boat was in great condition

2nd ( this should be first)

The haulout was great. The hull is in amazing condition. No cracks, no blisters, nothing. The brass prop has no damage, so the zincs held up. Prop zinc had to be replaced which the broker paid $12 for on the spot.

3rd.

We were about to go to the sea trial, when the broker went off to have a quick lunch before hand... I decided to check that the furlers worked at the dock... and whadya know :)

We couldnt get the headsail unfurled(which turned out to be a 110% Genoa high foot)

The FURLEX system was jammed, I looked inside, it was all messed up in there like hell, someone really messed it up last time it was furled. Secondly, the system was not put together properly, and a screw was out of placce and tilting the whole feeder on an angle.

Needless to say, we did not go on the sea trial as we couldnt get the Genoa unfurled.

The broker is fixing the headsail furler on his expense, and we are going on the sea trial tomorrow.

The engine survey is May 1st.

F#!! ... I don't own the boat and already it has cost me about $1000 in fees :) LOL!

Summary...

I am still in love with the boat, and she appears in great condition. Will find out how she sails tomorrow.

Although, I am not as thrilled with the cutter rig anymore. We got the Genoa unfurled 30% of the way, and already, when trying to swtich the sail to the other side it was a real pain in the ass.. but this was at the dock, with no wind, so we'll see how it works at sea.

Kacper
 
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#4 ·
So did he say that the water lift muffler needed replacement ? The muffler is probably only half a boat buck ($500) but while your there might as well do the hoses etc. and could be enough to be a bargaining point. Your surveyor should give you a detailed written report PDQ, they are usually pretty quick about it. But in the meantime at least talk to him and nail down this point. Secondly, they can't usually get too specific about telling you if you should buy or if he likes the price, pretty slippery slope there. About all they can honestly say is something like "I see no reason to not buy this boat provided yada, yada, yada." Good Luck
 
#5 ·
Kacper-

Congratulations on the survey. The prop had better be bronze, not brass. Brass is not suitable for use on boats, especially in salt water.

Waterlift is a term referring to the engine's exhaust system. Be aware, that trying to start an engine with a waterlift muffler for an extended period of time can flood the engine with water, and cause major damage.

Something is definitely wrong with the Furlex, since they're relatively bulletproof.

Did the surveyor give you a comprehensive written report?

I would re-think the saltwater faucet for the galley sink. A saltwater faucet can really save fresh water on a long passage.
 
#6 ·
Great news Kacper ! i think you'll figure the double headsail thing out quickly. In the meantime - you might want to beat your broker up a little bit -see if you can't get a couple of grand knocked off for the things you have to fix...if not - well you're getting a good boat and the money's not really a big deal if you're happy. :) Pointy end forward !
 
#7 ·
Good news, Kacper.

Sorry to hear you were not so pleased with the surveyor - It makes a difference if you feel he has been helpful and informative... Not someone I'd use based on what you've observed.

Good luck on your sea trial - hope you've got good wetgear (of course you do... you're on the Wet Coast)
 
#8 ·
That's an excellent result for you Kac...hopefully a smooth trial and you'll be home "free"....that's the last time free will be used in the same sentence as sailboat! (G)

Good lesson on the surveyor for future "customers". Ask...."I am new to sailboats and would like to tag along with you and have you explain what you are doing and seeing as you go. Do you have a problem with that?"
 
#9 ·
Thanks guys :)

Oops, lol, yes, the prop is bronze, not brass :) Was thinking one thing but typed the other.

SD - can you tell me more about the water-lift muffler thing? Why is it called a water-lift muffler and why can the engine flood if I keep starting it with a water-lift muffler(unless you made a typo and meant "without") ?

Kacper
 
#10 ·
Normally, as part of a survey, I thought that an estimated value was placed on the boat. It was my impression that this was done so that you can submit this to the insurance companies and mortgage companies as justification for the boats value. I have used two different surveyors and they both included an estimated value in the final report. I would ask if this was going to be part of the final report (for insurance purposes, etc).

Also, if you are concerned about value of the boat, you can check online at N.A.D.A. Official Used Car Guide Company and BUC.com - boats for sale, boat values, yacht charters (free but you have to register). Our last surveyor used buc , but it was more comprehensive than the free internet account. Others here will have to speak to the accuracy of these listed values, and how to determine your boats condition, etc. The buc value seemed pretty close to what we paid for our boat though.

If you look up the buc value for a 1983 Bayfield, then it is a good amount less than the listed price on that yachtworld link you attached. That could be a function of there not being a large base of numbers to establish this or some other factor. It could mean that they are asking too much as well (may be difficult to resell in the future without a loss) - I would research it a little more. Check all Bayfield 32's listed on Yachtworld currently and you may draw the same conclusion. When all is said and done though, the value of the boat is what you are willing to pay for it and how much you want it - that is what is most important - that you are happy with it in the end.

Hope that helps.
 
#11 ·
Kacper-

Under normal circumstances cooling water enters the engine from the sea and is pumped through the engine by the water pump. The water is then pumped into the exhaust elbow and then into the waterlift muffler where it is then pushed overboard by the exhaust gasses. However, during an extended attempt to start the motor, the engine may not be firing, and no exhaust gasses are available to push the water overboard. This results in the water accumulating in the water-lift muffler until it fills, and backs up into the exhaust pipe and exhaust manifold, then as the exhaust and intake manifold valves opene and close, the water flows into the intake manifold cylinders and carburetor.

This can hydro-lock the engine and cause serious damage if you try to run or start the engine with water inside the cylinders.

Generally, the problem can be prevented by not running the starter for more than 10-20 seconds at a time, and letting the water drain out between attempts.

I hope this helps.
 
#12 ·
The bloody Bimini is preventing the boom from coming all the way down!

Thanks SD! That cleared it up.

Alright guys, did the Sea Trial today... and guess what?

I LOVED the way the boat sailed(had some issues, which I would like your guys' advice with)

The way she just cut through the water, sturdy and fine, plowing the waves with that bow sprit decor.... AAaah... it was to live for!

She perfomed well in just 7 knots of breeze, with just the yankee and main. we were able to hit 4.5 Knots on all points of sail.

With the staysail out, we were able to hit 5.5 knots and could have probably hit 6 - 6.5 if .....

The bloody Bimini is preventing the boom from coming all the way down!

The Bimini, is too high. on a close reach and closehauled point of sale the boom cannot come all the way down. This seriously affects the shape of the sail.

I think the previous owner was a total newbie and didn't know the difference, ... he must have been sailing with the topping lift on the entire time, because when I un-did the topping lift, I could feel it had never been touched, the line would barely let out as if it had been stuck in that position for ages.

So the bimini must have been designed for his height or something.

So, this is something that definitely must be corrected. Any thoughts

I thought of adjusting the Bimini frames somehow, but this would make the bimini cover not fit over the frames correctly.

Another idea is to move the gooseneck up a foot an see if there this enough room at the top of the mast to move the head of the sail up.

OR... cut the head of the sail by about a foot. this probably wouldn't affect the sail as much as knocking a foot off the foot of the sail.

What do you guys think?

I could just remove the Bimini, which probably will not be up once we sail down south but, here it is a really great thing to have to keep you dry and warm when the weather gets ugly.

The other issue is the engine, which is getting surveyed on May 1st.

The Yanmar 2GM is running a bit "rough" and the broker anticipates that there is a fault with it. It's clanking a little bit too much and vibrates a lot more when you rev it up than it should.

How much do you guys thing these issues can get me knocked off the price of the boat :)?

Kacper
 
#13 ·
The bimini frame will probably have to be replaced entirely. A new frame, shorter in height, could be made to fit the old bimini, but it is probably worth making a new bimini at the time the frame is made.

I wouldn't cut the sails or touch the boom.

When you start sailing in the hot sun... you will definitely want a bimini. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the captain and crew. Also, helps keep the crew dry in the rain... Having some shade, when you're sailing in 90˚ weather is a huge part of staying healthy... and reduces your exposure to the sun.

Have you gotten an engine survey?? If not, might be worth doing, to see how bad the Yanmar really is. Could just need a tune up...could be something major...
 
#14 ·
Kacper...I looked at the on line pictures and the boom angle over the top of the bimini doesn't look that bad when compared to other bayfield pictures. With the topping lift off...how much sail is affected...if you let off the cunningham a bit...could you get a full raise on the sail i.e. can the head be hoised a bit higher? Cutting the sail or re-doing the entire bimini/cockpit enclosure will not be cheap. Normally you could just lower the bimini by cutting the struts a bit but the full enclosure would be lost by doing this. You will NEED the bimini itself once you get south.

The engine sounds worry me. No way to tell the problem from your description...clanking is never good and vibration could mean motor mount problems or something more serious. Get the engine survey done and then you'll know for sure...and we can help with cost estimates if your engine guy can't.
 
#16 ·
Kacper

SD is right when he suggests you WILL want the bimini down south - the sun is relentless, and as good as that sounds on a day like yesterday, you do need/will want the shelter after not too long.

The cheapest route for this problem may simply be to have the main recut to raise the clew (leave the boom/tack as is) to give the boom a slightly higher angle to clear the canvas. I'd guess this would cost between $200-250 - not bad in this new world of yours. Maybe less money yet if you make the sail loose footed at the same time.

By all means get the engine checked out, and make sure that the noise is in fact engine based, and not some external vibration knocking around. On our boat at least half the noise is from vibration of external parts at certain rpms. (cupboard doors, the companionway ladder, etc)

Good luck - nice weekend on the way, I'll keep an eye out for you.
 
#17 ·
I hired a pretty well known surveyor when i first bought my boat. Very few of the problems on my boat were detected by him! He tapped and tapped but never had a moisture meter. He told me the old wilcox-c head system was fine. The holding bladder was not even hooked up to the toilet and the manual pump is broken apart! The previous onwer was crapping right into the water. There were bottles of draino and bleach and oozy goopy toxic sludge in many of the storage copartments. The part of the deck i am re-coring, he said was fine. I won't bore you guys with more but it was pretty much a waste of 750$. I could have spent that on my new head and holding tank! I guess the guys in my yard were right....jack of all trades, master of none!
 
#18 ·
SouthernCross-

Just remember being well-known doesn't mean that they're any good. Same thing about being a professional. I know a lot of amateur photographers that put professional photogs I know to shame... all being well-known means is that people know the name... all being a professional means in many cases is that the IRS knows you do something and get paid for it.
 
#19 · (Edited)
SimonV said:
Kacper
Yanmar 2GM early models were renowned for noise and vibration about 1800 rpm.
In the pic of the engine in the Yachtworld listing, the plate on the engine is marked 3GM. Go figure.
 
#20 ·
Faster said:
Kacper
The cheapest route for this problem may simply be to have the main recut to raise the clew (leave the boom/tack as is) to give the boom a slightly higher angle to clear the canvas. I'd guess this would cost between $200-250 - not bad in this new world of yours. Maybe less money yet if you make the sail loose footed at the same time.
While cutting the sail to save the bimini may smack of blasphemy I agree this will probably be the cheapest way out and unless your sailmaker thinks it will ruin the sails shape it may be better all around. I know after having a full enclosure bimini made for my previous boat at $5,000 you won't get much bimini adjustment done for under $500.
 
#21 ·
We just ordered a presized bimini from Overtons that was close to what we had on there before. We plan on just cutting it and resewing on reinforcing strips or a zipper where the backstay cuts through it. The bimini was 6 feet long x 8 feet wide. It came with an aluminum frame that was 54" high and it cost something like $330. We got Sunbrella, but had we gotten the lesser fabric (sharkskin), it would have been $250. Vinyl would have been even less. May be worth looking into if the current bimini is close to one of the prefab ones - check it out.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for all the tips, will keep you guys posted.

Yes, I actually think the engine is 3GM :) The broker may have made a mistake listing it as 2GM.... in that case, I get more bang for my buck. But i am trying to be quiet about this lol

Kacper
 
#23 ·
Forgot to mention battries

I forgot to tell you about the batteries.

there is another potential issue...

I think the batteries might be ****. They are two deep cycle golf cart batteries.

Obviouly I would want more juice than golf cart batteries if I go offshore, so I would replace them, but, I do not think they are working fine as is right now anyway, this may be another reason to lower the price of the boat.

The batteries were fully charged when we went on the Sea trial. When we came back, 1 hour later, after just using the stereo, they were down a significant amount. from 13.5 V(when fully charged) to about 11.5 V

I do not know much about batteries, is this normal? We hardly used any power at all.

How much would replacements be?

Kacper
 
#24 · (Edited)
A lot of people swear by the 6v Golf cart type batteries.
Just because they are the 6V type does not mean they are ****.
Are you sure they were charged before you left?
 
#25 ·
The golf cart batteries are probably the most valued style for long term cruising. They can withstand discharges the best of all batteries out there. I would agree with you though that the one in the boat are toast. Not knowing what Amp Hour rating they have doesn't help knowing if they are ok, but no matter how small the battery could be, an hour or two of a stereo could never knock them down. They are shot. If you are looking at serious bluewater cruising, these are the best. Wire two six volt batteries in series to get twelve volts out.
 
#26 ·
Trojan T105 6VDC golf cart batteries are excellent batteries for the buck, and can take a lot of abuse... Two of them in series gives you about 225 Amp-Hours at 12 Volts. Not a huge amount of power, but not bad as a small house bank if you have relatively modest electrical needs.

Did you check the water level in the batteries.. if the water level is low, they can behave the way you're describing. IF the water level has been low for a while, the batteries are probably toast.
 
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