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post #1 of 32 Old 05-02-2007 Thread Starter
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Unhappy Crew How Do U Protect Ur Self

As most of you know I will be in the states soon to get my boat (at this stage Islander 36) I was thinking of offering a spot for a suitable person/s to help crew to the Galapagos or further, with their only cost being, covering their share of food and their airfares home.

Then I came across this in an old post in CREW WANTED.


I had to pay a fare in Samoa for a crew member who left the boat as the authorities would not let me leave untill I did so , stating I arrived with the crew and it is up to the captain to get them out off the country. It was a private yacht. In Dec 2005 in Tonga as a crew member and with 2 other crew members we put a writ on the vessel as the captain would no pay our accomodation or airfares out off Tonga. Immigration advised it was the Captains responsibility to pay all debts, food, accomodation, taxis, buses, ect while in Tonga. The police, immigration fully coperated and the police put a officer outside the boat to make sure he went no where. The next morning he paid up so he could be cleared. The Police also presented him with a bill for wasting them their time before he could leave. It was a private yacht and in each occassion no bond was require. So I do know what I'M talking about as I have first hand experiences. It"s only skippers, who try to bluff crew members, so as to get out off their responsibilities. Believe me I know
Also for the record I sailed To Tahiti on a American vessel in may 2006
We all entered Tahiti without posting a bond and the authorities stipulated the Captain had to pay my airfare back to New Zealand, accommodation, food, and taxi to the airport untill such time as the plane departed.


How do you protect yourself form people like this one.

After KACHER does the Atlantic I will be glad to have him come along for the ride.

Simon
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post #2 of 32 Old 05-02-2007
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Have the crew give you a secured credit card (prepaid, available from most banks) with enough on it to cover their air fair and meals before you leave. You should be able to get an average cost for these air fairs from any travel site or an estimate from a travel agent.

This way you might only be out a small amount of money in the event that the prices change.
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post #3 of 32 Old 05-02-2007
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Have them give you cash in advance to cover their flight home. Then you sign a note saying you will pay their flight home from any agreed upon point.
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post #4 of 32 Old 05-02-2007
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like it or not, it IS the responsebility of the skipper to ensure every person aboard has all the requirements for them to enter ports of call. that might include visas, prepaid tickets and accomodations or the money to aquire them.

however, it is NOT the duty of the skipper to pay for anything unless that's the aggreement. in other words, if you're held responsible for your oversight, you can demand your expenses including any additianol costs that might have arisen. (that it's more than likely that such ... subjects ... can't pay their debts is another matter)

some other things you should ensure is valid insurance, since you might also be held responsible for hospital bills in case of accidents or illness.
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post #5 of 32 Old 05-02-2007
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A pretty good answer to your question HERE - from a ship's captain. This applies to private vessels as well.

Good luck
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post #6 of 32 Old 05-02-2007
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Could just look for a really reliable crewman, might be able to assist in that area. I'm in So. Calif., where's the boat and when do you get here?
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post #7 of 32 Old 05-03-2007
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All true. Very true. And the lien for costs incurred is against the vessel.

For a real round of fun, try landing a stowaway. Even back in the country they stowed away in. American President Lines carried a stowaway for a full year on one of their ships-no one would take him, not even Singapore where he embarked. Stowing away on a merchant ship is not advisable. The best thing for the Master and crew of such a vessel is that it not happen-even if it does happen. And the implications of that should discourage anyone of sound mind.

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post #8 of 32 Old 05-04-2007 Thread Starter
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It sort of puts a dampener on the whole experience. I would hope the person that puts his had up to come along would be decent, I am sure most are, but it would be a nightmare to come across such a mercenary bastard. Thanks all for the input.

capttb I will be in touch closer to the time.

Simon
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post #9 of 32 Old 05-04-2007
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Here's some thoughts about how to avoid this problem:

1) Buy a boat in Australia or somewhere closer to where you live (i.e. New Zealand, Tonga, etc)

2) Hire a professional delivery skipper/crew or company. The ability to pay the exorbitant amount airline charge for one way ticket from Australia to the US in no way speaks to the ability of that person to sail on a voyage of this magnitude. You could very well find that the people most qualified for a trip like this either can't or won't pay their way home.

3) Sail nonstop from the US to Oz. But how do you plan to find and vet potential crew members for such a committing trip in a country you may not be at all familiar with?

4) Bring crew or friends with for Australia assuming you have the skill and experience to skipper such a voyage.

TR is correct that you are ultimately responsible or your crew and knowing and conforming to entrance and exit requirements of the countries you visit.

Another thing to consider in all this when contemplating is should you end up in a situation like the one you described at the start of this post is the practicality of actually suing your wayward crew. It is difficult enough to collect a judgment when all parties are citizens of the country where the actionable offense occurred. In the above situation, where would launch your lawsuit? Australia? US? Tonga? You could very easily find the cost of pursuing such a suit very quickly outstrips any money you might recover (assuming 1) you actually prevail, which is can never be guaranteed and 2) the defendant even has the money to pay the judgment).
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post #10 of 32 Old 05-04-2007
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It is a sad and deplorable situation where men who consider themselves fair and honorable treat hired help like slaves or indentured servants. If a boat owner doesn't have the ability or backbone to move his ship from one port to another by himself, then he hires crew. Good crew, real crew that you pay for their work and feed and house them. This isn't the damn prom or a political dinner - it's a job. You tell them when to work and when to sleep. When to eat and what to eat. There is no 'calling in sick' or taking a day off.

People who scrape up crew from the streets and tell the ridiculous lies of "providing them with great adventure and experience, a glorious trip through paradise", are beneath contempt and often get the miserable crews they so richly deserve. The abominable act of charging hired help on a per day basis is so greedy and selfish I should refrain from commenting on it.

For a good Captain, good crew is always available, if you're willing to pay their worth. If you're not willing to pay, well, you get what you pay for, don't you. You hire a crew for a crossing, feed them well and give them a fair and structured regimin that they can quickly adjust to and feel comfortable with. When you reach your destination, you get them to a hotel where they can eat, rest and clean up, then to the airport where you have paid for the flights. Last, you stuff a fat handful of cash into their hands and say, 'Thanks a lot', and they always say, 'Any time, man, any time at all.'

It's no more than common decency. Those who don't do this want something for nothing, and what's worse, they want someone else to do it for them. The practice of skinning crew to get your work done is abhorant.

Just my humble opinion.

Hawk

Last edited by Hawkeye25; 05-04-2007 at 07:42 AM.
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