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  #21  
Old 05-25-2007
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cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
Dad,

As some of you may know I'm on Lake Texoma. (Literally, went sailing this AM.)

We live 10 miles as the crow flies, about 45 miles by car from where the Valiants are made. Derebery marine is here along with legend marine group (the latter two are very respected 'go-fast" boys)

I'll second the low costs here, and add in the pride of "ownership" the local community has with these companies.
In the small towns around this 89,000 acre lake "everybody" knows "everybody" . Not many secrets out here. The pool of employment while narrow, is very deep. These "good 'ol boys" know what they're doing, and have intense pride in the quality of their workmanship.

The market driven forces have been at work.

There are only so many buyers of new "Bluewater" boats each year, and take into consideration that one will put you on the wrong side of 650k (before you start tinkering with the "standard" configuration) the pool of buyers shrinks even more.

Dad and I agree that the interior space on a tub like a Vailiant is tight. People that are interested in them already know and accept that.

Where a problem occurs is when a nouveau riche round-the-world-wannabe (or a person thats read far to many issues of Sail) compares a PSC/Valiant to a oh, who knows... Bene 473, and sez... the Bene is 5 ft longer, much bigger inside and 300k cheaper, why would I want that dark/cramped old time design PSC/Valiant?

You can't answer that question without wanting to smack 'em in the noggin.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2007
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Pacific Seacraft is not going away

Pacific Seacraft is not going away. Wendy, if you have any questions or problems with "Night Reach", let us know. It is great to see you working on her in the yard here at Port Annapolis.

Joe Thompson
Crusader Yacht Sales
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2007
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But even the comparason between Valiant and PSC has additional factors why one survived and the other is in trouble. If for example, you compare the Valiant Esprit 37 (I don't think that Valiant still even builds the Esprit37) to the PSC 37. the Valiant started out with a far superior hull form and rig design. The Esprit was just plain easier to handle in a blow and the keel on the Esprit was updated at least once. I can't recall hearing that PSC ever updated their rig or underbody.

Then there is the shift in definition. Neither boat is really suited very well to distance cruising by any modern standard. Today, people consider a more than decent dinghy an absolute necessity and neither boat lends itself to carrying the weight of a modern inflatable off its transom. Both can be adapted to provide a good water capacity, which comes at the price of either fuel, or grocery storage.

I guess in some ways, while this is a tragedy for the company owners, it may actually pretty good for the owners of these boats since there will be fewer of them available in 'like new' condition. And frankly the market for these boats may have actually run its course and so people looking for offshore cruisers wil move onto the next company's better, more suitable design.

Jeff
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2007
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Tell us about the history of the CEO with other companies!
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Arrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

So what??? they lost.....many have also...get over it....there are many others there that would love your business....spend your money elsewhere....

If in this World today, they lost, something was wrong....to begin with...

They were either:

1) making no profit, so should charge more, and to justify the cost they would have to build better to attract customers, which they weren't = Engineering problem


2) They made boats with too much primary material costs, and were selling them at less than real value = Bad project managment

3) They simply made an unattractive product = design problem

4) Their managment was too greedy = common problem in the US

5) Cost of labour was too high or unqualified, thus taking a longer time to make a boat = organisational problem

6) all the above.


Lucky those that have one, sell it for more.....as collectible
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2007
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I have always admired PCs. Of course I would since I own a Westsail. In the late 70's, it was hard to tell them apart from a distance.

I can agree with those who feel a Catalina or Hunter or Beneteau can serve the limited purpose of today's sailors. Some sailboats never leave the dock and become "condos".

My vessel is now 28 years old. I surely looks dated as it did when it was built! Her lines came from the 1800's. However, she is still in fantastic condition, rugged beyond belief, able to survive the "Perfect Storm", and has circumnavigated for many owners.

I use her as a coastal boat only. We all know how the "mud" can hit the fan even out coastal sailing. This boat gets me HOME everytime. I never worry about her integrity and my wife says it's the safest boat she has ever been on.

We all know Westsails died in the early 80's. Nobody wanted to pay for such a sturdy vessel. PS took up the slack and ran with this same concept for over 30 years. Given their dedication to strength and quality, I believe they did a great job.

I believe what caused them sales was the lack of modern innovation and the current competition with builders all over the world. It is now a global market in the boat business. Of course being based in CA couldn't help either since the cost of living is so high. To keep workers, you got to pay a lot of salary, benefits, Worker's comp, liability insurance and, oh yes, resin.

I hope they can turn themselves around. Hinckley did but with their "picnic boat". I don't know if you can buy a new sailboat from them today.
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  #27  
Old 05-27-2007
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This is a real shame, and sad to boot. The wife and I got a tour of the factory in '84, and the craftmanship, the cleansliness and the materials being used were fantastic even back then. Just seemed like a class act, with a very pleasant floor mgr and work force. Then a year or so later I ran across an article in a biz mag that rated them as one of the best 50 small businesses in California. Wish I could find it.

Both Mr. Crealock and Mr. Perry are gods in many of our eyes, and their work and products shall and will be cherished for many years to come. Hopefully they can find another venue to practice their craft.

So the question now is, how do the other yards that produce boats of this caliber remain afloat, so to speak. Who would you compare or label as being in the same league and catagory? H/Rassey? Oyster? Valiant, H/Christian, Shannon-(I heard they're back, btw), or Tayana? Is this just a So Cal thing?

Will be intersting to see how this all plays out.......

Rick
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  #28  
Old 05-30-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta
Arrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

So what??? they lost.....many have also...get over it....there are many others there that would love your business....spend your money elsewhere....

If in this World today, they lost, something was wrong....to begin with...
Life must be so simple in Giulietta Universe.
Black-white, black-white, black-white... mmmmm... la-la-la-la
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  #29  
Old 05-30-2007
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and I was planing to buy new Dana
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  #30  
Old 05-30-2007
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and I was planing to buy new Dana
...this is what might be able to help them. There is a huge hole in the market right now. There are very few boats on the market under 30 feet. An awful lot of the old ones are finally going to their graves. They were the starter boats for a lot of folks, were not well maintained, and now, it would just cost too much to bring them back to seaworthy condition.

If Pacific Seacraft could come out with their version of the C&C 27 or the CS 27 or one of those smaller cruisers, and if they could build a good hull but not spend huge dollars fitting out the interior, so that it could sell it for under 100K, I believe they'd have a real runner on their hands...
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