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USCG radio procedures

13K views 88 replies 24 participants last post by  SailNet Archive 
#1 ·
I would like to get your opinions about how the CG broadcasts distress call information. Whenever we hear the local CG (Port Angeles, Victoria, or Seattle) broadcasting a Mayday or Pan Pan message we turn the radio up and listen carefully so that we can assist if we are in the area. The problem for us is that after giving a lot of information they only give the location once and quite often we either don't understand it or we don't recognize the name of the location(Doe Cove, Black Bay, etc). If they give the Lat/Long then it is no problem, but this seems to be only about 20% of the calls. The problem is not that we are not familiar with this area, we have been boating here for a long time (30+ years) and probably have more local knowledge than 90% of boaters. We think it would be a good idea for the CG to repeat the location twice and give some sort of reference to the closest well known landmark eg. "in the vicinity of Buckeye Shoal, which is approximately two nautical miles west of the North end of Cypress Island". An immediate broadcast should be made with whatever information they have, but then as soon as possible we would like to hear a followup broadcast with better location info. In the cold water we have here people have a survival window of about 30 minutes, so it's extremely important to get assistance as quickly as possible.
 
#2 ·
John,

You are absolutely right. I monitor Channel 16 most days and nights, and have been frustrated for years over the problems you cite.

Somehow, those in the upper echelons of the Coast Guard simply don't understand the problem, don't care about it, or don't know what to do about it.

The watchstanders do their best, but they are NOT being given adequate instruction and training about how to speak slowly and clearly, and repeat critical information (like position). I'm a native to the Chesapeake region, have sailed here for many decades. But, with 5,000 miles of shoreline, there are a lot of place names which I still don't recognize. This past Memorial Day weekend the USCG in Baltimore and in Hampton Roads broadcast several PAN PAN alerts for vessels in some sort of distress, but some of these were absolutely unintelligible in terms of position. Even when they repeated the broadcast a hour or so later, it wasn't possible to get the position.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that many watchstanders are young and are not native to the region. Thus they often cite landmarks which are ambiguous or plain misleading to those who know the area.

Any COASTIES reading this???? Listen up. You simply have to do better with the urgent broadcast info. It could help to save some more lives.

Bill
 
#3 ·
Hi Bill, my wife Laurie has emailed the CG about this and got a non- answer response stating regulations and established radio procedures without addressing the issue. I fully understand the need to immediately broadcast whatever location info. they have in the hope that someone is close by and can lend assistance, but what about someone that is close by and doesn't understand the location info. or isn't familiar with local names? If enough people contact the CG about this we might be able to get some needed changes made. Maybe they do not realize how many people like you (and us) are out there ready and willing to help? John
 
#4 ·
Call the station in question and ask to speak to the Commanding Officer, I'm pretty sure you'll get immediate results. If not, call the District Headquarters CO. It's a matter of working your way up the chain of command until you get results. Or you can call back on the radio and make them clarify the info. Eventually someone will get the message and broadcast properly in the first place.
 
#7 ·
I stay off ch. 16 during an emergency(as required) so I don't tie up the channel asking questions. If there is a long pause with no replies I will sometimes ask for a repeat of the location, but usually I stand by and wait for a repeat. I would guess that the last thing the CG wants is a bunch of people jumping on the channel potentially blocking someone that is in the immediate vicinity from getting through to them. That's the whole point of wanting them to change the procedure so that you don't have to call and ask, if they announced the position twice and then as soon as possible give a reference to a well known position it would eliminate the confusion and possibly get assistance to the emergency quicker(in time).
 
#8 ·
jrd22 said:
I stay off ch. 16 during an emergency(as required) so I don't tie up the channel asking questions. If there is a long pause with no replies I will sometimes ask for a repeat of the location, but usually I stand by and wait for a repeat. I would guess that the last thing the CG wants is a bunch of people jumping on the channel potentially blocking someone that is in the immediate vicinity from getting through to them. That's the whole point of wanting them to change the procedure so that you don't have to call and ask, if they announced the position twice and then as soon as possible give a reference to a well known position it would eliminate the confusion and possibly get assistance to the emergency quicker(in time).
SOP is to get the CG on 16 and ask to imediately go to a side channel, then ask for clarification and let them know if they said it twice and slower, you wouldn't have to call them back :)
 
#9 ·
JRD...I tried posting on this yesterday but for some reason it did not appear. Anyway...I think you have raised a really good issue and one which is NATIONAL in scope and not simply local. I took the liberty of writing over on the BoatUS forums to the admin to see if they might help getting senior Coast Guard officers to consider this issue and perhaps open a dialog about what is needed. Aside from the need to repeat and provide reference points and lat/longs we also need to get them to slow down and stop mumbling.

If anyone else believes this is an issue...pls. confirm right here with a post so that BoatUS and the CG may see that this is more than just a couple of whiners...and we might actually save some lives and boats!
 
#10 ·
It is absolutely an issue, and not just a recent one either. One of it's common manifestations is the shift and answer routine. The CG broadcasts, concluding that one should "shift and answer, Channel 22Alpha, out." If you have poor reception or couldn't hear quite well enough, you do not know where to go.
"One mile east of Wolf's Point" means nothing to a foreign ship, or a sailboat far from it's normal cruising grounds. The CG is actually tending towards using the 'CB' lingo they, and the FCC, so deplore, where local knowledge is required. If Wolf's Point is the obvious reference, being more easily understood than lat/long, then it should at least be conveyed with the most relevant chart number available. The unfaimiliar mariner can then, quickly, assess his proximity to the incident reported.
 
#11 ·
I recall a recent ad or article for a radio with a difital memory that can instantly playback whatever was just broadcast. At the time I was thinking about how useful it would be for that exact situation. Although it would be good if the info was repeated, in the meantime I keep a scratch pad and pencil close at hand when on watch for recording pertinent details of distress calls although I still sometimes miss the lat/long!
Anyone know about the radio I saw? I can't remember who made it.
 
#13 ·
camaraderie said:
If anyone else believes this is an issue...pls. confirm right here with a post so that BoatUS and the CG may see that this is more than just a couple of whiners...and we might actually save some lives and boats!
I agree 100%.

Last weekend heard several transmissions in which the radio operator sounded as if he had marbles in his mouth. Could not understand a single word he said. Also, he was not speeking into the mic. The background noise was more audioable than his voice was.

It is a problem and apperently it is Nation wide.

I also agree that we have to radio back for more info if we didn't get it the first time. "CG,Please repeat. We didn't fully understand your last transmission."

Something, anything to that effect. The radio works both ways.
If 16 is busy, than they will probably ask you to switch to 22A.
 
#17 ·
Cam- glad to hear you and others agree that this is a serious problem , we thought it was just us. Please keep me informed if you hear from the CG and I will do the same, I am going to contact the local and district office as recommended by USCGRET1990 (thanks). The problem seems so obvious and the solution seems so simple I am surprised that the CG hasn't changed their procedures already. I hope everyone that reads this thread will post a reply - even just to say "I agree", Cam is right that in order for anything to happen they will want to see "numbers".
 
#18 ·
I contacted the Marine Safety Office for the 13th Dist. USCG in Seattle and asked who I should talk to about CG radio procedures. I was explaining what I was trying to do, and why, at some length when another person broke into the conversation and said "I'm Petty Officer ----------- and do I understand that you want the USCG to change it's national radio procedures, just for you?" I responded that, no, not just for me but for all boaters in distress and all boaters that would like to be able to assist those in distress. He changed his tune immediately and became very helpful and gave me a number to call in Virginia for the USCG headquarters. Unfortunately, it turned out the number was for an engineering dept. that has nothing to do with the radio procedures and the fellow there said that he had no access to ANY phone numbers at Headquarters? I then called the CO 13th Dist. office and someone there said that they would have to try to find a number of someone that could help me and they will call me back. Could be a long process, I'll keep at it and report back on any progress. If anyone has any contacts at the CG, I'd appreciate it if you would PM me. Thanks, John
 
#19 ·
Questions:

Is a change in "radio procedures" really needed to obtain an understandable transmission in the native language?

If it is just a matter of asking the USCG station for clarification in the interests of aiding in rescue, what is the reticence about making a plain request for same? I thought that the purpose of marine radios was communication.

There are no perfect radio operators in or out of the USCG.
 
#20 ·
Goodnews- According to the USCG, apparently (can't even get a definitive answer to that yet) the answer to your question is yes, a change would be required to state the location twice during the initial broadcast and to then follow up with a reference to the closest well known location if possible. Instead of having to call them back to ask for the location doesn't it make sense that they announce it twice so you don't have to call while they are handling an emergency? It seems that a lot of us have the same frustration with the way the CG gives the location so why not try to suggest a way to improve it for everyone? A few minutes may not seem like much, unless you are in the 40-50 degree water we have around here (Puget Sound) where 30 minutes is the average time before you die of hypothermia.
 
#21 ·
If having a radio operator say positions twice as has been suggested will do the trick, then by all means go for it.

You guys are probably just a lot faster with the pencil and paper than I usually am. I'll probably have to go with (spoken very quickly) "say again position, over."
 
#22 ·
GOODNEWS
I thought that the purpose of marine radios was communication
. That's eaxctly the point of this thread. I could not agree more with Cam. I have called the CG in the past when a PAN PAN or SECURITE might effect me. The thing is I should not have to. My primary complaints are they speak too quickly and they do not enunciate.
 
#25 ·
Now there's a great way to improve communications; get a politician involved. A panic stricken USCG admiral is probably more dangerous than most things we encounter at sea. Who knows what might be done.

As for the politician, we'll end up paying a tax on radiotelephone usage to "fund" the training of USCG radio operators. Don't worry, the money will be earmarked.
 
#26 ·
At this point I would take any help I can get, even from a politician (anyone have any good contacts?). Haven't been able to put much(any) time into it this week, but hope to get back on the phone to try and find out who to contact. I haven't heard a word from the two CG employees who were going to get back to me with that info., didn't really expect to, they didn't sound too encouraging about anything getting changed "for a bunch of sailboaters". When and if I make any progress I'll post it here, don't hold your breath:))
 
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