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SimonV 06-26-2007 06:50 AM

Buyers Broker.
 
If you engage a broker to locate a boat in the area of San Francisco
(Maybe I could try Best Friend) being, Sausalito Yacht and Ship (CYBA). Is that broker working for you or the seller, as I understand it their fee comes out of the sale price agreed upon split with the seller’s broker?

Good points

1. This company is right up with export rules in relation to tax.
2. They replied to my email within the hour.
3. They are also surveyors
4. They have been around for along time.

With them looking for me is it wise to have them do the survey?

sailorjim99 06-26-2007 07:06 AM

Broker
 
Simon
I believe in the U.S. there is a type of broker who finds YOU the boat and does the deal for you.
That includes getting you the best price.

Maybe the others will know what I am talking about.
I don't think we have the same sort of deal here in OZ.

Jim.:cool:

sailingdog 06-26-2007 07:06 AM

It depends.... some brokers are highly ethical, and if retained by the buyer, will represent the buyer's interests, much like a realtor in the US real estate market. Others, who are less ethical, will try and close the sale regardless of what is in the buyer's interest.

I don't know if the boat brokerage market has developed the same highly refined agreements that real estate has, and whether it includes protection for the buyer, in the case that the broker they've hired has a boat under representation that may be of interest—where they are the seller's broker. I don't believe this is yet the case, so you would have to look at the wording of the agreement you sign very closely.

As for surveyors, I would look to get a truly independent survey, rather than one done by the brokerage, even if said brokerage is nominally working for you. It would be one more check and balance to the boat buying process for you.

SimonV 06-26-2007 07:22 AM

Thanks SD, Oh by the way you dont know whats happened to my rep points Ive gone in to Red numbers :D :D

Jim, Yes the day is getting closer and closer.

eherlihy 06-26-2007 08:05 AM

Realize that if the broker only gets paid AFTER you buy the boat, regardless of whether you retained them as a buyer's broker, or not, their interest is in selling you a boat.

SEMIJim 06-26-2007 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog
It depends.... some brokers are highly ethical, and if retained by the buyer, will represent the buyer's interests, much like a realtor in the US real estate market.

Careful with that bit about realtors! It's not necessarily accurate. In fact: In many states the law specifically was, and may still be, that licensed real estate agents always represent the seller, regardless of who contacted them. For example: At the time I bought my home, 15 years ago, here in Michigan, I had a particular real estate agent "working for me." But, legally speaking, tho she found me the house, she arranged to relay my offer to the seller's agent, she guided the entire process from my end, she was actually working for the seller. That was the way the law read. A Michigan real estate agent could lose their license for the most minor of infractions of doing anything that put, or appeared to put, the buyers interests ahead of the sellers. (One friends wife had her license suspended for simply conveying a water test sample to the lab for the buyer.) In fact: When there were two agents involved, one contacted by the seller to get their home listed and the other by a buyer looking for a home, they were referred-to as the "listing agent" and the "selling agent."

I believe Michigan real estate law has since changed, and now true "buyer's agents" are possible. I believe the same is true of some other states.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog
Others, who are less ethical, will try and close the sale regardless of what is in the buyer's interest.

I would be cautious anytime somebody stood to profit from my spending money ;).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog
I don't know if the boat brokerage market has developed the same highly refined agreements that real estate has, and whether it includes protection for the buyer, in the case that the broker they've hired has a boat under representation that may be of interest—where they are the seller's broker. I don't believe this is yet the case, so you would have to look at the wording of the agreement you sign very closely.

Definitely.

Btw: With real estate, it's not just "highly refined agreements," but state licensing boards. I don't know if any state licenses boat brokers or brokerages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog
As for surveyors, I would look to get a truly independent survey, rather than one done by the brokerage, even if said brokerage is nominally working for you. It would be one more check and balance to the boat buying process for you.

I would tend to concur with this.

I may use a broker-recommended surveyor if I knew the broker well and felt I could trust them implicitly. (Like I did my real estate agent.) Otherwise I'd try to find my own.

Jim

sailingfool 06-26-2007 10:07 AM

never seen a buyer's broker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog
It depends.... some brokers are highly ethical, and if retained by the buyer, ... Others, who are less ethical, will try and close the sale regardless of what is in the buyer's interest. ....As for surveyors, I would look to get a truly independent survey, rather than one done by the brokerage, even if said brokerage is nominally working for you. It would be one more check and balance to the boat buying process for you.

I have never seen a buyers broker in the yacht business, doesn't mean there are none, I've just never seen one...I did a Google search, and come up with links like this Yacht brokerage, discount yacht charters yacht ownership | Sailonline.com while it lists valid reasons for buying through a broker who services you, calling this person a buyer's broker is a play on words, the underlaying relationship is the same it has been for years.
A buyer DOES NOT RETAIN a broker, the seller has retained the "listing" broker, and any broker you happen to deal with becomes the "selling" broker, also representing the seller.

So don't be confused that both brokers aren't working for the other guy.. Nonetheless, I do believe that a good broker is extremely valuable to a boat search and should be relied on to help find you what you want, you just need to remember he/she has mixed motivations. But a good broker will hustle for a buyer and provide their expertise to his benefit, because if he does not, the buyer can and should move on to work with someone else. "Your" broker can be a great asset and friend, just remember he's getting paid by the seller... and you need to take his advice with care.

sailingfool 06-26-2007 10:18 AM

Never use a broker's recommendation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEMIJim
....I may use a broker-recommended surveyor if I knew the broker well and felt I could trust them implicitly. (Like I did my real estate agent.) Otherwise I'd try to find my own.

Jim

Absolutely never rely on a broker for a surveyor recommendation.

A good broker should give you the names of several good surveyors, but I personally would never expect them to give you the names of the few excellent surveyors. Brokers know who the excellent surveyors are, because those surveyors "screw up" half the deals they come into, to the endless consternation and cost for the sellers, and any broker, even the best, would not want to see them like death.

I've regularly used a home inspector that the area RE agents call "Doctor Doom". He is a certified engineer of extraordinary knowledge and high hourly billing rate, I've used him five times, including two offers which were withdrawn due to fatal conditions that the typical home inspector would not have found (i.e. a 20 year old home that had no occupancy permit on file...most home inspectors assume that something required long ago happened and don't got to city hall to check). You can bet no RE broker ever recommends Doctor Doom.

cardiacpaul 06-27-2007 12:45 AM

I know more than a couple of "brokers-boat-sales-guys".
Some of them are very knowledgeable, some have been in the business for years and don't know stem from stern.

I haven't had too many bad expereinces with them, most of them know mw, I don't know if they respect me or not.
(my self esteem is not contingent upon their opinion)

Some are little more than used car salesman in deck shoes.

getting to the point.
I have been called an "anal-retentive *****" by one sales wonk. LOL, yea, thats my job.
I have also been old by a prospective buyer that a salesperson told them after the survey that he "would" recommend me but, trouble is nobody takes a sales guys recommendation for a surveyor. :)

sailingdog 06-27-2007 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
I have been called an "anal-retentive *****" by one sales wonk. LOL, yea, thats my job.

Yup...that was pretty obvious... ;)


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