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  #21  
Old 07-31-2007
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Slow Movers

As a helicopter guy, I resent comments by suck and blow guys about going slow! If you can't hover, you're Qu**r!
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denr View Post
I pass boats like yours all the time with my little 34 footer, I don't have a dance floor in the aft cabin like your houseboat but she sails sweet! It wouldn't have mattered had you bought the Hunter or the Catalina, they too are built to be used as marina queens rather than sailing vessels. Ya gets what's ya pay for!
Denr,
Go drink your prune juice, visit the head, and then come back and say something nice about Hunters and Catalinas.
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2007
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Denr,

I didn't know Macgregor made a 34 footer. You must have put a bowsprit on that Macgregor. And its not fair... your boat has a great big outboard!!!!

- CD
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2007
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wow the truth hits a little nerve guys? I didn't say that they are bad boats just that they are designed for comfort rather than speed, be honest, prefer grapefruit juice chilled my my Seafrost unit!
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  #25  
Old 07-31-2007
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Prune juice for you, old man.
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2007
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decent trimaran
oxymoron?

;P
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2007
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People who think sailing is about getting to your destination quickly are obviously missing the point. jerrylitton has it spot on.
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2007
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You mentioned dropping the hook...you weren't dragging it, were you? Look at it this way, they day I (in a Bristol 32) pass you, worry....at least according to Jeff H. Hey Jeff. :-P
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  #29  
Old 07-31-2007
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That's why everyone should have a rocket, like my Catalina 400!! HAHA!

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  #30  
Old 07-31-2007
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Why is it always me that gets stuck writing the counterpoint on these threads; I guess someone has to do it, and frankly this one is a multi-part question; (I apologize that this is mostly cut and pasted from an earlier discussion on this very make and model.)


Part one- Lets start with the boat.

If you look at the usual suspect PHRF scratch sheets, one thing becomes very apparent is that very few of these boats have been rated, and that should tell you something about the perception of the speed potential of these boats. Here on the Chesapeake there is only one 361 that has been rated with an in-mast furler and it is rated 156. With all due respect, a 36 footer with a rating of 156 is somewhere past painfully slow as compared to other popular production coastal cruisers like the 1970-early 80’s Hunter 36/37 which rates 132 or the Catalina 36 which rates 132 to 141, let alone higher performance oriented cruising boats like the Dehler 36 at 96, Beneteau 36.7 at 78, or the 1980’s era Express 37 at 72.

Should this Matter?
After all why should you care if your boat is slow relative to similar sized boats? It seems like the opinions above suggest that you should not care. In my opinion if all you are going to do is go out daysailing, then I would say, if your ego can withstand owning a slow boat, I would completely agree with all the other opinions. (Although, I personally find that fast is fun and that fast boats are much easier to sail in the kinds of changeable conditions on the Bay- more on that later).

But if you intend to cruise much, or you like to daysail somewhere, anchor, perhaps swim or eat lunch and then sail back, then here on the Chesapeake 20-30 seconds a mile, no less a 1 minute, 18 seconds a mile, is a huge difference. Because that small amount of extra speed allows you to actually keep sailing at a reasonable speed during the lower ends of the wind range that is the summer norm around here. Before someone sits down and does the math, faster boats way easier to keep at speed and so have a much faster speed advantage when in cruising mode than racing. In my experience, in reality 20-30 seconds a mile typically results in 2 or 3 hours difference over a 25 or so mile sail and sometimes much more than that.

Sailing out of Annapolis, as it appears the O.P does, 20-30 seconds a mile makes the difference between being able to comfortably sail to the Chester River, St. Michaels or Oxford on a weekend, vs. having to motor most of the way, or not go at all except on a three day weekend. It makes the difference between being able to sail down to the Rhode River for a swim and come back the same day, vs. being stuck with Whitehall Bay (not that there is anything wrong with Whitehall Bay but as a steady diet…you see what I mean.) It is the difference between sailing to the Little Choptank or Chesapeake,Rhode Solomons Island in a long day, or making two or three hops. It is the difference between a relatively leisure 10 day cruise that reaches the North or Southern end of the Bay vs. pushing hard every day and not even getting there.

And here is where your own personality comes into play, for some, if not most, whether sailing or motoring, simply getting out on the water is its own reward. There is nothing inherently wrong with that attitude. A boat like the 361 is fine if you don’t mind spending the majority of your summer time out on the water motoring.

But if you are a person like myself, (and I wouldn’t curse anyone with being like me, not even my worst enemy) in other words a person who hates motoring and sees voyaging under sail as the greatest luxury there is; then a boat like the 361, let alone one with an in-mast furler, would be a particularly poor choice.

Which brings us to part 3, even a boat like a 361 can be sailed well or poorly and there is a big difference in performance between the two.

Possibly, you may actually not have had the boat very well optimized for the conditions in terms of sheet leads, halyard tensions and so on, let alone more basic sail trim. It is very difficult to get good sail shape out of a roller furling mainsail but it can be done. Let me suggest that you might want to consider one of the professional coaches out there. Annapolis Yacht Sales can connect you with SailStars, which is first rate professional sailing coaching company that AYS used to package with their new boat deals. The owner, Othmar knows Beneteaus and someone like Othmar can come aboard and really show you how to sail your boat well, and get the most out of it. Trust me this is the best money you can spend if you are new to the sport and care to sail your boat well.

Then there are the amateurs. If you have a friend who is a good sailor, ideally a good racing sailor, invite them along to help you sort out your boat. Tell them what you want to achieve in advance.

If you don’t know such a person, then, with all due respect, I suggest that you send me a PM. For what it is worth when I have time, (which is less the case these days than in the past), I like to sail on different boats and to coach folks on how to get a little more performance and ease of handling out of their boat. I do this partially to return the favor to the many folks who have generously helped me learn about sailing and sailing technology throughout my sailing life. But I also enjoying seeing how well different designs actually sail from onboard (rather than in passing them), and how well they respond to sail trim. It is just one way of the ways that I form my opinions of specific models in the first place.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Last edited by Jeff_H; 07-31-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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