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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #1  
Old 08-12-2007
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What's with all the sails?

We are kind of noobies at this, and when we bought our '80 CS 36T, it came with a whack of sails. Various jibs, a yankee, two staysails, an extra 125% genoa, and genneker. The boat has a nice, heavy duty furling 150% genoa and so I'm wondering why all the extra headsails? I can understand the genneker for light air downwind, and a staysail if I want to run her offshore as a cutter, but is there really any use for the smaller jibs, genoa and yankee? I thought the idea of a furling headsail is to reduce sail area according to conditions; if so, why would I leave the cockpit, haul down the genoa and raise a storm jib? I;m thinking of just selling these; even if I do go offshore someday, is it realistic to haul along 7 sails?
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Old 08-12-2007
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A partially furled (reefed) genoa is nowhere near as good a sail as a properly sized jib when the wind pipes up, especially if beating. The bulk of the furled section is inefficient and the luff rarely rolls up evenly so the shape is wrong in both dimensions.

I would urge you NOT to sell them all - certainly keep the "blade" (usually a 100% or less jib) for those heavy weather days... For shorthanded sailing and higher wind forecasts, change the sail on the furler and you'll get better performance and much easier tacking.

We sail often in relatively strong conditions, and have often wished for a slightly smaller jib than our blade, and a yankee would have been great on those days.

I understand the desire to get rid of the bulk of all these extra sails, but keep some heavy air sails and the gennaker/spinnakers as well. Store some off the boat if you must, but I wouldn't sell them all.
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Old 08-12-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffaLives View Post
... is it realistic to haul along 7 sails?
Depends on what you want out of your boat and your capabilities as a crew. If you're just pleasure-sailing and don't particularly care about maximum performance: Then no, you don't "need" them. You can just bend on the 150% genny and roller-furl it as necessary. But, as noted previously, a partially-furled genoa will not perform as well as a fully-deployed jib, for example.

Our boat came with a raft of sails, too. But it has a Tuff Luff system instead of a roller furler. That may turn out to be an issue for the Admiral and I, sailing short-handed as we will be most times, but we're going to give it a go and see if we can do it. We're hoping that, as we get good enough with the boat and that system, and learn to read the weather, the wind and the boat, we'll learn to change-down to the jib early enough that it won't be a (big) problem. (One problem will be packing-away the foresail taken down while on the boat! Not sure how that's going to work out.)

Jim
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Old 08-12-2007
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I am still getting used to furling. I think I need those little fairleads that go on the stanchions, because just running the line across the deck between the rail and the stanchions (which are 1 1/2" pipe) isn't working well...too much friction.

Unfortunately, I can't find stanchion blocks that will clamp onto such a large diameter pipe. I can't find a stern rail mount for a flagstaff for the same reason.
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Old 08-12-2007
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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
...Our boat came with a raft of sails, too. But it has a Tuff Luff system instead of a roller furler. .... (One problem will be packing-away the foresail taken down while on the boat! Not sure how that's going to work out.)
Jim

The trick to packing the "old" sail with a foil is to raise the new sail in the spare (windward) groove, then tack and sheet in the new sail. (you have already relocated that jib lead as req'd) This puts the "old" sail laying up against and inside the new one Then you drop the old sail down inside the newly set sail. If you have autopilot (or a third crew), then you and your mate can slowly lower and flake the old sail by sliding it down the new sail that is doing the work. It's then a simple job to roll the flaked sail and bag it.

If the sail comes in a sausage bag, then you can lay it out first and drop/flake the sail right into the bag, zip it up and you're done.

The major problem with foils and short handed crew is that since there are no hanks to keep the sail on deck, it's more likely that some of the sail ends up in the drink, especially when things get windy.
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Old 08-13-2007
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Hmm, then I guess I better give a call to the consignment store and get at least my storm jib back. One question -why switch to a smaller jib when single handing? Easier to furl?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffaLives View Post
Hmm, then I guess I better give a call to the consignment store and get at least my storm jib back. One question -why switch to a smaller jib when single handing? Easier to furl?
Not so much because its easier to furl, but tacking is much easier than hauling the 150 around - but if you insist on using the 150 furled part way then there's no advantage other than performance.

As cruisers, if the wind is particularily light, many people tend to motor anyway, esp if the objective is upwind. Once you get to 10 knots or so, many boats will sail quite well with the blade and a full main (I'd think your CS36 would too), you don't have to reef the main quite so soon, and the sailhandling is lighter and easier.

I think that if you give this a try, you'll find it works quite well in the moderate breezes and higher. In the light stuff you may be wishing for the genoa, but in the light stuff changing sails is not a big deal.

We carry on board a blade, a 135, spinnaker. No furler, so we just set the best sail for the conditions. On one of our previous boats we had a furler - but it wasn't a reefing one, just a furler and the design class had only one headsail size - nicely in the K.I.S.S. concept.
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Old 08-13-2007
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You could always weld padeyes to the stanchions and the attach furling fairlead blocks to the padeyes. It is a steel boat... so welding stuff to it is a good way to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
I am still getting used to furling. I think I need those little fairleads that go on the stanchions, because just running the line across the deck between the rail and the stanchions (which are 1 1/2" pipe) isn't working well...too much friction.

Unfortunately, I can't find stanchion blocks that will clamp onto such a large diameter pipe. I can't find a stern rail mount for a flagstaff for the same reason.
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The major problem with foils and short handed crew is that since there are no hanks to keep the sail on deck, it's more likely that some of the sail ends up in the drink, especially when things get windy.
Thanks for the tips, Faster. Yeah, it sounds like a job for at least two people up front. I dunno... I'll have to give it a go, some time, and see what happens .

Might be do-able with sausage bags...

Jim
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Old 08-13-2007
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Hmm, then I guess I better give a call to the consignment store and get at least my storm jib back.
If I were you, I wouldn't be so quick to dump all those "extra" sails. You admit you're newbies at this. You might find yourself wishing you had them back, later. And I'd be willing to bet one of those sails it'll be a damn sight more expensive to buy news ones than what you'll get out of the old ones.

I'd hold on to those sails for at least a season, maybe two, before deciding I wasn't ever going to want or need them.

Jim
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