Whats so Important about knots - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 52 Old 08-14-2007
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Jim, that was for Sailortjk, sorry.

Great men always have too much sail up. - Christopher Buckley


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post #22 of 52 Old 08-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
So if a bowline is the only knot you'll need...OK, let's make this a bar bet. Someone please show me how to tie my shoes with a bowline. And tie 'em snug.

Come on, there's GOT to be a way....


Jim, I don't know about a slipped reef knot, but I always use slipped square knots in sail ties. That way I can walk down the boom and yank-yank-yank the ties are off and the sail can go up. Handy for a lot of things. (But they don't hold well enough or tie snug enough for my shoelaces.)
Aren't you at the velcro laces stage yet?

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post #23 of 52 Old 08-14-2007
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"velcro laces"
That's what we call...well, I'm not sure it's a polite word so I'll not use it. Let's just say velcro shoes were invented for the skells in prison, so they couldn't use those shoe laces to hang themselves. Great for three year olds and "arthur-itis" but I still use laces.
I'm waiting for the TSA to figure out there's a thing called a "handcuff knot" which is really something to be used when you aren't carrying handcuffs...which they get REAL UPSET if you try to bring onto a plane. So far I've been sneaking my shoelaces past them.
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post #24 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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These are the knots I use most often



Bowline—good knot for sheets to clew of sail, as well as general purpose loops
Bowline in a bight—easy way to make a cheap harness for going up the mast
Buntline hitch—better knot for halyard shackles
Figure Eight knot—a good stopper knot for halyards
Reef or Square knot—good for sail cover lashings, reefing point lines, sail ties, etc.
Eye splice—good for dock lines
Backsplice—good for rope-to-chain connection that will feed through a rope-chain windlass gypsy
Monkey's fist—nice decorative knot, but also good for heaving lines
Round turn and two half-hitches—good for fender lines to the boat
Sheet bend or Becket Hitch—good for connecting two lines of differing sizes
Turk's head—decorative knot good for marking king spoke on a ship's wheel

Jury Mast Knot—a decorative knot, but also can be used at the top of a spar to connect shrouds and stays to it temporarily
Tautline hitch—good knot for fender lines, since it allows you to adjust the length of the lines
Stopper knot—a better stopper knot, since the figure eights can be "kicked out" by accident
Larks Head or Cow Hitch—good for tieing a single long sheet to the clew of a genoa or jib

Couldn't find images for these two:

Cleat hitch—it is what it says
Towboat Hitch—good for tying off a line that needs to be releasable under even heavy loads... like a tow rope


BTW, the photos and images were from one of my favorite knot sites... located HERE.

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post #25 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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I know this was recently posted in another thread, but it applies here. Here is the link to Grogs animated knots. http://www.animatedknots.com/knotlis...mage=&Website=

And a side note, when some dock lizard tells you that you don't need to know any knots, listen to everything he has to say, then do the opposite. You don't need to know every knot in the book, or even most of them, but you definetly need a small arsenal of knots. Reef or square, bowline, a few hitches, a few bends, and yes.... fancy little bows with which to tie your shoes (even though I started buying Merrill Jungle Mocs that have no laces a few years ago and I haven't gone back to the dark side yet).
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post #26 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
JJim, I don't know about a slipped reef knot, but I always use slipped square knots in sail ties.
"reef knot" and "square knot" are different names for the same knot.

Jim
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post #27 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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Many knots have multiple names... the Cow hitch is also a larks head knot... the tautline hitch is a midshipman's hitch or guyline hitch. I think some of the names are regional, and others are due to the same knot being "invented" by different people in different places. Only so many ways to make a good knot for a specific purpose.

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post #28 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
"reef knot" and "square knot" are different names for the same knot.

Jim

Thats right Jim. The name reef knot was given to the knot by sailors for obvious reasons, its used in reefing sails. The name square knot was given to the knot by landsmen because of its squarish appearance (landsmen don't know what reefing is, but they had to call it something). In our case, for tradition sake, I'd have to say that we use a reef knot. That is, if you want to get picky with the details.
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post #29 of 52 Old 08-15-2007
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I tend to use knots from the climbing world, which has a pretty different vocabulary. You'll find a few oldtimers hewing to the bowline, but I've never seen a climber under sixty use one. The standard tie-in is the figure-8, followed back thru. A bit bulky for sailing, so I use a simple overhand followed back (aka waterknot). That's a very strong knot, but harder to untie after loading.

For joining two cords end to end, the double fisherman's (or 'barrel') knot is common, though slow to tie. For joining cords for rappel, the overhand eight is quick and solid, easy to untie, but prone to jamming in cracks during retrieval. The simple overhand is very strong and tends to 'stand up' the tails on slabby climbs, minimizing snags. But it's unreliable with ropes of very different diameters. Clove hitches are used for rapid length adjustments; not a safe terminal knot.

Finally, for making slings out of bulk webbing, climbers argue endlessly over the best method. I use waterknots in part *because* they untie easily -- sometimes you need to thread a sling around a chockstone. But you must keep a very close eye on them. Upshot -- my boat looks like its been rigged by Rheinhold Messner. But the knots all work fine. Gotta keep practising that bowline....
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post #30 of 52 Old 08-16-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
I tend to use knots from the climbing world, which has a pretty different vocabulary. You'll find a few oldtimers hewing to the bowline, but I've never seen a climber under sixty use one. The standard tie-in is the figure-8, followed back thru. A bit bulky for sailing, so I use a simple overhand followed back (aka waterknot). That's a very strong knot, but harder to untie after loading.

For joining two cords end to end, the double fisherman's (or 'barrel') knot is common, though slow to tie. For joining cords for rappel, the overhand eight is quick and solid, easy to untie, but prone to jamming in cracks during retrieval. The simple overhand is very strong and tends to 'stand up' the tails on slabby climbs, minimizing snags. But it's unreliable with ropes of very different diameters. Clove hitches are used for rapid length adjustments; not a safe terminal knot.

Finally, for making slings out of bulk webbing, climbers argue endlessly over the best method. I use waterknots in part *because* they untie easily -- sometimes you need to thread a sling around a chockstone. But you must keep a very close eye on them. Upshot -- my boat looks like its been rigged by Rheinhold Messner. But the knots all work fine. Gotta keep practising that bowline....

Same with me man... using climbing knots everywhere. Most of the people I see sport climbing though use the bowline, or actually a double bowline with a yosemite finish... so much easier to untie after whipping on it than an 8. I use a bowline when I sport, or 1 pitch trad. When I multi-pitch I use an 8.

All my bowlines on the boat have a yosemite finish on them, which confused a few people at the dock. I wouldn't climb on just a bowline, because they tend to come un-done... why would I secure my boat with the same sort of thing.

My jack-lines are webbing using a waterknot... I have built many anchors (climbing) using waterknots, and trust them entirely.

Climbing is one reason why I don't use the reef-knot/square-knot on the boat anywhere. Knots that untie themselves are never welcome.

-MysticGringo

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